Yes obv the median players are better in LeBron's era. But thanks for writing an essay to prove my point.

Hanging your victory cap on Leandro Barbosa and John Salmons. Sounds about right and totally in line with the other crap you write.

There really wasn't a euro-step, or a "floater" back in the day...all those harden dribbling moves he does to get a step back 3? not to mention the ball movement they do to get an open look. you did not pull up and shoot an open 3 in the 80's. you didn't drill that.

look, bird, west, pistol pete, jordan...these guys were gym rats. they would have drilled the moves u see today and mastered them...but they were too busy creating their own moves from what elgin baylor and dr J and david thompson were doing. You can't fault Michelangelo for only painting bible ****. it is all they did back then. they did it great. they expanded the art. the jazz. the hoops.

im old school but im on the lebron train. he is six foot nine. he beat the warriors. kyrie walked out there and felt like he was curry's equal...but only because he had the chosen one lebron james on his side. u see what a head case kyrie is absent lebron. k love? didnt those warrrior f-ers win like 73 games...cavs were down 3-1. cmon man u will take 28 year old lebron number one to win a ring or die.

I could ascribe to your arguments and believe them much more if Kobe and KD swapped rankings on your list.

No way could you argue Kobe is a more ideal fit on a super-team than other guys. Similar to LeBron he's only willing to play his style, and it's much more inefficient.

It has to be your Jordan homerism clouding your judgment of him.

Show me one NBA player that says LeBron is the goat!
Only one and I show you 100 better NBA players that say Jordan is!

Yeah he beats the warriors and lost vs the mavs with a better team , so ?
Is 1 year makes someone the goat ?

Yeah warriors won 73 games , than KD came and they won less games , does this means the warriors were weaker ?

Stop nitpicking .

lololol

I was light years ahead on this one.

#checkmate

Now this is a great post.

You contradict yourself, you cited Bird's height. I thought you got it.

Lol that Kobe is a more versatile scorer than KD. Taking bad shots doesn't make you versatile, KD can shoot over anyone anytime.

Has KD scored 81 in a game tho?

That's about as versatile as one can get!

Kobe is somewhat held back by the era he came up in. The 3-ball wasn't yet a popular strategy when he was growing up. If he came into the league today, he would probably have better shot selection and turn some of those contested 20-footers into 3's. He certainly had the ability to shoot from deep.

Among all your ******ed arguments and cherry-picked stats this is the most ******ed.

LeBron is probably the GOAT assister of open shots, especially open 3's. His GOAT combination of strength and speed forces help defense when he gets close to the basket, and creates open shots when he passes it out. Passing to an open shot is better than forcing a contested shot vs a double team.

LeBron rarely takes contested shots because he creates a better option usually.

No, the NBA draws from a much larger talent pool now.

Citing a single example of Hakeem Olajuwon (who I agree is the GOAT non-American player) does not prove that international players were as good 30 years ago as now. You have to look at the league as whole and see how much more international talent there is now. Look at how much the Dream Team dominated everyone in 1992 even though some of their players (Magic and Bird) were way past their prime. The 2008 Redeem Team with prime Kobe and LeBron was no worse than the Dream Team talent-wise, but they didn't win by nearly as much because the competition got much better.

There are now euroleague teams that would beat the worst NBA teams.

More than 1/4 of the nba is foreign born. Back then it was hakeem and kukoc.

A stiff like robert parrish couldnt make a squad now.

Yes, the international players are better on average. But that doesn't mean they all make the NBA and dominate, driving up the average NBA competition compared to 1990.

The best players in the world play in the NBA in 2020. The best players in the world also played in the NBA in 1990. The 5th best player for Lithuania may be better in 2020 than 1990, but that doesn't mean he's playing in the NBA, and it certainly doesn't mean he's driving LeBron's statistics down because he "improved the league".

These are all great points. Some topics for further LeDiscussions:

- Who would win in a friendly game? Fenerbahce Ulker or the Golden State Warriors? Zalgiris Kaunas or the '96 Bulls? How easily could Nando de Colo shut down prime MJ? Nando, Fenerbahce's best player, was drafted 53rd overall and played 3 years in the NBA. So we know he would dominate and drive down LeBron's stats if he played a bit longer. Also, remember humans have evolved into a different species since MJ last played ~20 years ago. My money is on Nando.

- Who is better: Rolando Blackman (4 time NBA all-star) or John Salmons (2nd team all Big East)? You may say Blackman was probably better since he had way better career accomplishments, but hear me out -- he actually played in the 80's and 90's. That was like more than 10 years ago. Furthermore, John Salmons was born later than him. Meaning he is younger. What more argument is there?

- Could Usain Bolt run in today's track and field game? Yeah sure he was dominant in 2009 breaking the world record and all. But this is 2020. I mean come on. Running and jumping is basically a different ballgame now.

- Could Robert Parish, who was selected to the NBA's 50th anniversary all-time team, make a high school varsity squad? These youngsters would run circles around that hall of famer. I mean we have the 7th best player from Croatia's national team now driving the competition up. If they selected that anniversary team now it would be at least half Chinese since they have 1.5 billion people.

There are airplanes to fly international players to the U.S. now unlike in 1990, and Europe was invented as well. Therefore the average competition is definitely an order of magnitude better now than 20 years ago. Just some deep thoughts to think deeply about. I rest my case.

So no real reply to KD is obviously superior to Kobe for the same reason you love Bird and no acknowledgement of my Tony Parker posts.

He's not interested in really talking basketball at all, just The Jordan Monologues.

You just made the argument. World pop is greater than it was 30 years ago, and the percentage that plays hoops seriously has increased as well.

Look ath decmine in vince carter's ppg over his career.

His MPG went down too

The top 1% in any given fields would still be in the top 1% in futur generations.
Futur generations learn and evolve faster because of the experience and knowledge passing from older generations to earlier generations.
Seriously why the hell some here think that’s because your old or come from older generations , you couldn’t benefits from better knowledge, training , nutrition etc . Like the younger generations can learn from 0o ....

It’s ******ed to claims that Kareem at 7 feet 2 and other legends like him , in today games , would suck since they couldn’t incorporate all the advantages of knowledge and training players of today can benefits from...

I would rather think a lot of players of today would instead be much worst in older era because they wouldn’t be as good since they couldn’t benefits of today’s knowledge of today’s game if they were born in that time period....

Evolution is working forward, not backward.
yes it probably would affect some stats but only slightly and the best proof is Matt point about some record in track and field that can last decades long ...


Ps: you can see these effect a lot clearer in chess, science , hell even poker obv.

I literally argued the opposite. Yes the world population is bigger. That does not mean the average competition in the NBA, specifically, is higher. That is a hypothesis that you have done nothing to prove.

Most of the world population growth is coming from Africa and the Middle East. These aren't NBA players reproducing at a maximum rate to father more NBA players. The population growth in the U.S. and Europe (where most players originate) is relatively flat. And most of that growth isn't coming from a higher birth rate, it's coming from people living longer. Like I said, 80 year old grandmothers aren't dunking on LeBron. Look up the population demographics if you want.

There are more NBA teams now and more roster spots to fill (from a talent loaded era in the 80's and 90's). They are being filled now by say, the 5th best player from Serbia (and other countries). Your argument is that these replacement level players are driving competition higher in the NBA such that LeBron's statistics are suffering compared to Jordan. Is that right?

Do you see how getting a few extra international players does not appreciably affect NBA competition when the league has expanded? The best international players were already playing in the NBA in 1990.

All this is why when you actually check who the top players were in the late 80's vs. the top players 20+ years later, you oddly see that in 1987-88 the players were actually really freakin' good and almost certainly better than they were in 2008-09. This is also why you see track records that have stood since the 80's. It's because that while yes, the average athlete does gradually improve over time, that in no way implies the top .00001% has improved by the same margin, and it doesn't imply there is zero variance from 1990 to 2020.

If KAJ was able to be 19 all stars..... that’s a loong time and surely the nba did evolve some during his period and still he was an all star .
A lot are amazed about lebron James longevity, did you forgot about kareem ?
Don’t forget kareem went to college , imagine if he could join earlier like lebron did in the nba ?