Seems like LeBron crushed that draft, GOAT GM

Kemba before Lillard and KAT so late are wats?

lol at nobody wanting Russ to WIM up another MVP on their team.

I'm old enough to have had a classmate who ****ed Jordan at UNC.

You do realize he missed 20 games, right?


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MJ at 34: regular season MVP, finals MVP
Lebron at 34: tries to trade away half his team, misses 1/4 of the season, comes very close to leading his team to the playoffs

MJ at 21: 38-44 record, bounced in the first round.

Lebron at 21: 50-32 record, takes Larry Hughes and Sasha Pavolic to the finals.

Cheery picking is easy huh!

Also MJ at 21: NCAA champ, Olympic gold medalist, pan american games gold medalist, improved the the bulls by 11 wins in his rookie year, takes Steve Johnson and Quintin Dailey to the playoffs

I thought Jordan was a WINNER, why did he have a losing record and get bounced in the first round?

It doesn't make any sense!

Narrator: TheMVP is crushing it itt.

Not my point. Just saying that using the team record as an argument is a bad one when the guy missed 20/54 games.


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Or you can say lebron miss twice the play off and MJ never did ...
Cherry picking is easy ...

If you spent as much time learning English as you did aspying about LeBron you might not sound like a complete dimwit.

Obviously u never heard of the legendary Celtics (bird) and the pistons (Thomas)
Tell me one team in the east lebron ever had to face that was as good as them ?
Once u try u will get it .

But don't people mock Lebron for losing to legendary teams in the Finals?

Exactly.

I'm a Lebron fan and still call MJ the GOAT.

But Lebron has been non-stop incredible except for one series in 15 years.

Yes Dallas was bad but 07 is a pass, 2014 the Spurs played arguably the most beautiful basketball of all time, 2015 his team was decimated and Dellavedova was his second best teammate, 2017 the 'best team of all-time' added Kevin freaking Durant and ditto for 2018 but with even less help.

Call me a Lebron apologist but anyone rational can see that he only has one less ship than he 'should'.

Giannis did a horrible job drafting but he probably just figured it would be fun to dunk on all the other best players in the league in the same game.

Not 17 and 18 .
The other years he lost they werent legendary ...
And the proof was a lot of people’s were saying if lebron could of beat the warrriors last years he would of been the goat .

But the point was .... lebron had a free ride to the finals for a very long time , good for him !
But the difference between winning and losing is huge in the finals because he wouldn’t even reach the final the majority of the time if he would of been In the west all those years .
And will we see it now ....unless he gets huge help and personnally , I hope he will get it to finally see if he will win or lose without excuses ....

I just never seen any athletes ever , like lebron , having so many passes for his failure ...
And having a phenomenal athlete like Jordan downgrading so much his success with excuses !
It’s crazy .

In the current league Jordan would just be another Westbrook.

Check the NBA Season thread because you just earned some TZ Points!

IDK where you have been but people definitely rip Lebron for losing to GS every single time. They rip him for losing to GS without Kyrie and Love. Lebron beats record breaking GS and peoples response is well, let's see if he can do it again.

The only Finals he should have won was vs Dallas, he totally fvcked up that series. But he wins vs record breaking GS.

Getting to the Finals last year was one of the more impressive things Lebron has done.

Take out Boston, MJ is still a dog to win the East back then I'm guessing. Take out Det, MJ gets to 1-2 more Finals and probably has 1 Finals loss.

People are only bringing up MJ series losses bc people are ripping Lebron for losing to the Champions in the Finals.

You do realize BPM is an efficiency number, right? Typically the lower the minutes/games, the fresher the player, the higher the efficiency.

Also player health contributes to how good he is perceived. If he's injured he's not adding value.

OK let's not cherry pick at all then.

Top 5 VORP (minutes adjusted BPM; so total productivity) seasons for each player, side by side.

12.0 / 11.6
11.8 / 10.9
10.1 / 10.1
9.8 / 9.8
8.9 / 9.5

The better numbers on the left are Michael Jordan. Except for their 5th best overall season. The worse numbers are on the right. My guess is if Jordan didn't miss nearly two full seasons in his absolute prime it would be more lopsided, so lucky LeBron.

Now of course, a player could play in a way or on a team that allows him to stat hog at the expense of wins (someone like Wilt Chamberlain). So let's look at team success as well -- LeBron 6 champsionships (and 6-0 in finals) and Jordan 3 rings (and 3-6) in finals. So LeBron dominates there. And since, even though he's behind in stats, he totally dominates in team success, we can safely say LeBron is GOAT.

Oh crap wait I got that backwards. Jordan has way way way better team success too? And he's the one that's 6-0 in finals while LeBron is 3-6? Indicating his superior individual productivity is better aligned with team success? **** it's clearly Jordan that's the GOAT then for any rational thinker. If you're going by emotion and favorite player though I can see how it could still be LeBron, and that's ok. Not everyone can look at this rationally and in terms of facts.

Good idea that we probably shouldn't be cherry picking stats and actually look at player peak productivity to decide these things. It's the only rational way to do it!

How do you think Jordan's numbers would look if he didn't break his foot in his 22 year old season? He averaged 32.6 ppg in the games he played.

Are we disqualifying injuries now and extrapolating career success if a player is always in perfect health?

And most of those stats are efficiency stats. Not affected at all by low # of games played. LeBron's are clearly lower now. He is now playing in the better conference. LeBron made a lot of finals in a row playing in a terrible conference. And accumulated his stats in a terrible conference. Do you think he would have made 9 finals in a row NOT playing in the terrible conference? Think they're getting past Golden State this year? He's been injured, after all, so that .500 record is meaningless.

Except when Mj played for the Wizards....it’s almost as if you guys cherry pick. Mj made the playoffs with 30 wins one year. Imagine the outrage if lebron did the same thing.

True so what ?
Bulls did finish top 8 in conference .....
So he did make it and probably worst team didn’t make it right ?
You’re talking like he had free pass...
That year was the 86celtics right ?
Maybe the greatest team ever with golden States this years and bulls 96.
So yeah I guess wins were tough to get by with the players MJ had but worst team (3)were behind him !

Anyway i was just throwing out this ridiculous arguments/stats about lebron missing twice the playoff being as dumb arguments like MJ never passing the first round vs goat team or nba champ in his division .