LeBron = GOAT Containment Thread: SABR42, LuckyLloyd, & borg23 Co-MVPs b/c of post #20163 - Page 113 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

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LeBron = GOAT Containment Thread: SABR42, LuckyLloyd, & borg23 Co-MVPs b/c of post #20163

View Poll Results: GOAT?

labron

181 30.37%

MJ (Michael or Maple)

318 53.36%

Therapist

8 1.34%

George Mikan

5 0.84%

Shaq Attaq

21 3.52%

Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo)

13 2.18%

Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan

20 3.36%

"Roger Murdock"

3 0.50%

Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?)

9 1.51%

Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh)

18 3.02%

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05-31-2016 , 08:26 PM

#2801

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Banzai-

I think a lot of the pro LBJ arguments (Look how much Miami dropped off, look how bad the 07 and 09 cavs were) are flawed because they are defining greatness by how good one can be in a bad situation. LeBron is a jack of alrl trades type with no weaknesses, he can do everything, which means he is probably the best ever at covering for bad teammates and dragging sub par squads way further than they by rights should go. But it's all about the rings, and LeBron is much harder to build a super duper unbeatable team around than a more one dimensional type like Jordan or Curry. These two have obvious deficiencies (in an all time rating sense) that need to be covered by teammates, but once they are their ridiculous positives (even compared to someone like LeBron) in specific areas are super duper valuable. Curry/Jordan could never drag a bunch of scrubs to 66 wins, but a LeBron team would need far more talent to ever be 72+ wins imo.

tl;dr: LeBron teams are higher floor, lower ceiling, which is worse.

Except if you swap lebron with curry or Jordan, those teams are just as successful

Quote

05-31-2016 , 08:26 PM

#2802

VarianceMinefield

banned

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 57,722

Quote

05-31-2016 , 09:08 PM

#2803

tzwien

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,267

Curry is on a team full of scrubs and they are about to win back to back titles. Klay and Iggy are the only non scrub teammates he has. Even they look like scrubs most of the time when Curry isn't on the floor with them.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 09:09 PM

#2804

Eltbus

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It's amazing watching those videos (that and the DET game) then realizing that he got better ~year over year for four years after that in Miami. Pretty remarkable.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 09:14 PM

#2805

Fallen Hero

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tzwien

Klay was just the best player in the WCF. Iggy was the finals MVP last year. Dray was the Warriors second best player in the last two years.
More importantly, they have a coach that got them playing a great offense that brings out the best in all of them, obviously Curry is a huge part of that, but they work very well even without him (as they proven before)

Quote

05-31-2016 , 09:20 PM

#2806

TimmayB

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Lebron James

4th best player itl

Loooooooooool

The deniers just look like total clowns at this point and should be treated as such.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 09:38 PM

#2807

JimHalpert

Howlpert

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 50,746

Bit confused here, hopefully someone can fill me in (not sarcastic. Legit asking).

See posts about MJ not winning til he got help as a negative. See posts about Bron having no help and carrying teams to the playoffs but not winning as a positive.

Casual nba fan here and those look to be similar things that just show that nobody can really win alone but truly elite players can dominate with a little help. Is this an incorrect view of the discussion and if so can someone straighten it out for me?

eta: that Bron video is sweet

Quote

05-31-2016 , 10:20 PM

#2808

DodgerIrish

Fraudulent Zodiac

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 28,192

no, you're right

they're neck and neck as the best players ever. Trying to introduce a center in the discussion is a devil's advocate approach. Wilt, Hakeem, or Kareem would be deserving of those arguments. Shaq if you base it on peak.

It's all semantics and eye of the beholder at the top levels but it's clearly Bron=MJ and/or one of those bigs and nothing else really holds water objectively.

Honestly, it's all a bunch of narratives crafted on a random reality when it comes to most of the arguments you're referencing. MJ is a better Kobe and Bron is a better Magic if you want to reduce it to total casual levels.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 10:27 PM

#2809

mullen

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Currently watching the LeBron Game 5 vs the Pistons in 07 on hardwood classics. Pistons running Billups/Rip/Prince/Sheed/CWebb. Cavs trotting out Andy V, Big Z, Boobie Gibson, Pavlovic, and LBJ in crunch time 4th Q. Should be a fun watch going forward

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05-31-2016 , 10:28 PM

#2810

mullen

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Rasheed Wallace just murdered LBJ on a drive, got all wrist on the block. No foul. This has been going on for a decade.

Last edited by mullen; 05-31-2016 at 10:33 PM.

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05-31-2016 , 10:35 PM

#2811

mullen

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Mike Brown looks like a deranged homeless person who stole a suit 5 sizes too big for him.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 10:37 PM

#2812

mullen

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Cavs really spacing the floor here, just subbed in Drew Gooden for Andy V. Their depth is incredible.

Bron just dialed up a wide open 3 for Boobie Gibson. Absolute brick that leads to a transition bucket for Detroit. Hilarious how things never change. Cavs down 5 with 3:47 left.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 10:47 PM

#2813

mullen

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LBJ drains a triple right in Sheed's eye to cut it to 1 with 2 minutes left.

Brown goes to 34 year old Eric Snow for D over Boobie, makes a sick strip on Jason Maxiell. LBJ throws a perfect pass late in the shot clock to Gooden for a 7 footer in the middle of the paint. Brick. Pistons up 1 with 54s left. This team is complete garbage. How did they make the finals?

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05-31-2016 , 10:49 PM

#2814

mullen

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Jason Maxiell gets switched onto LeBron at the top of the key. LOOOL this won't end well. One crossover and a superhero slam over a literally cowering in fear Prince to put the Cavs up 1.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 10:50 PM

#2815

BiiiiigChips

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mullen

People have short memories. It's good to see that you are refreshing yourself.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 10:50 PM

#2816

Banzai-

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,714

Quote:

Originally Posted by vhawk01

What specifically about bron makes him hard to build a super team around? His...lack of weaknesses?

Yes, because that lack of weaknesses comes at a cost when comparing to other all time greats.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 10:52 PM

#2817

Fallen Hero

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Banzai-

Yes, because that lack of weaknesses comes at a cost when comparing to other all time greats.

this is non-sense, Jordan wasn't exactly a one trick pony. And your hypothetical in which you'd want your GOAT to be one dimensional so that he doesn't clash with his teammates doesn't exist.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 10:53 PM

#2818

JimHalpert

Howlpert

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 50,746

thanks di

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05-31-2016 , 10:56 PM

#2819

Palo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DodgerIrish

MJ is a better Kobe and Bron is a better Magic if you want to reduce it to total casual levels.

I think of MJ as more similar to Wade except slightly superior in every way and Wade is/was better than Kobe, too.

Quote

05-31-2016 , 11:00 PM

#2820

KCYoung

adept

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 917

If Jordan is number 1, I have Lebron 1.5 If he wins this year, 1.25 haha Its closer than most think. Most arguments are just trolls and haters of Lebron more often than actual significant reasoning. And if we are just counting rings, isnt Horry the GOAT? (Pretty sure he has more rings than both of em, just saying)

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05-31-2016 , 11:17 PM

#2821

Iwreckshop

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,542

Quote:

Originally Posted by mullen

Where can I watch this

Quote

05-31-2016 , 11:24 PM

#2822

mullen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Iwreckshop

Where can I watch this

I got NBA league pass and its in the classic game section.

Figured I'd stop spamming the thread with the pbp but this is just absurd. Tied with 1:35 left in the 2nd OT now. Pistons hard doubling on the PnR, the whole Cavs team sans LBJ is utterly useless. Just hit an impossible stepback over Chauncey.