As great as Kyrie is, hes also improved significantly less from 21 to 24 than most players do.

LeBron's fault no doubt

Usage and AST%? Sounds like an "advanced" stat

He dipped slightly for a year mainly due to injuries and this year had a 23 PER on 58% TS% and 21 and 57% in the playoffs after last years 20/54% year in 53 games but 24/57% in the playoffs. How high should his stats get as second banana? These stats are very similar to pippen albeit with much worse D.

Stats are contextual. I really don't know why this is so hard for some of you to grasp.

But you make blanket statements without proof and we're supposed to believe them like their gospel? I don't agree with your assessment. Where's your proof on how 21 to 24 year old basketball players are supposed to improve? I'm pretty sure if you look at averages, your stats are not going to show that. If you look at elite players especially HOF, maybe that's true. I don't think Kyrie was going on some HOF path after his 2nd and 3rd seasons especially after the blistering start he got off to during his first season. Kyrie basically flatlined his stats after his pretty GOATish year 1 as a rookie without Bron, and basically it's stayed pretty flat except jumped a little this season.

Apparently Kyrie, KLove, DWade, Bosh are all terrible fits with LaBronze. The only players who are good fits are MO WILLIAMS type stand-around shooters. Got it. Sounds like NOT the GOAT.

Who said this?

Kyrie, KLOVE, DWade and Bosh are at worst good fits with Bron. Maybe you're confusing non-ideal with terrible, for your side it's a pretty easy confusion to make.

Mo Williams I guess got better but was already good before he got there and maybe got a little better.

Kevin Love and Bosh were legitimate superstars offensively who were reduced to Ryan Anderson and Channing Frye in order to fit with LeBron. It's a joke. And it's becauae his limitations make him incapable of playing a team oriented style that gets the best out of everyone.

Trade Durant for LeBron and Golden State gets significantly worse because Steph Klay and Dray have to just sit around waiting for "King" James to pass them the ball .

Love's usg% is in line with what you expect from any #3 option on any team, there's only one ball. Same for Bosh

So you're telling me no one on the Bulls ever took a reduced role because of being on the Bulls next to Jordan?

What do you expect to happen when a player goes from #1 on a non factor team to team to #3 on a title contending team?

You don't think Durant/Klay/Curry have given up stats and for two of them likely future MVP awards to join up? Klay's stats have dropped the last 2 years as Curry has emerged and Durant came over.

You might want to recheck that. His numbers have gone up each of the last 3 seasons during the regular season. He did have a drop off this year in the playoffs though (mainly due to shooting like ****). But spiked last year.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...thompkl01.html

PER went from 20 to 18 to 17, TS% has been constant at 59%. Win shares dipped slightly, BPM has slipped a bunch (2.7 to .7 to .3); VORP has also dropped in half (2.9 to 1.5).

What stats are you looking at that show him increasing? His bulk stats have jumped a little bit but he's also playing more minutes per game (from 31 to 34) in the regular season.

Curry took a huge hit this year from his MVPs years. 28 to 31.5 to 24 PER.

Wooderson knows how Kyrie would have turned into if LeBron wasn't there.

Prolly a 30/10/10 player to be honest.

If you can't see the difference, then please never engage me again. The Warriors were already an established contender/champion. The Cavs were not.

Weak ass Thunder team. Wow. The trolls here used to be funny. I never minded them. Now they're just no effort losers.

Can you explain the 90% win %, Eric. Do you mean before Ray hit the shot? Clearly the Spurs win % was 0% at the end of the game. I doubt it was 90% for all but a small % of the game if that.

Here's the homework I did for you:

http://www.inpredictable.com/2013/06...ity-graph.html

Spurs win % was only 90% for 37 seconds. If you look more at the graph, Heat win % was clearly much greater than the Spurs most of the game.

Well there's massive sample of players getting worse with LeBron so its a pretty safe assumption Kyrie would be better now if he was allowed to be an actual PG.

Yes every player that played with LeBron since 2005 has hated playing with him.

He's made them much worse off. Sometimes he made them so bad they won championships as a result.

What a Houdini play. Made everyone worst yet they take paycuts to play with him.

I wonder how long wooderson would last as an agent when his client tells him they want to go play with LeBron and you spew a bunch of your LeBron opinions about how awful they will become as players.

So there is this giant sampling of players getting worse, and some how Lebron leads them to the finals every year and he's won 3 finals. He must be really good if his teams are turning into **** on his watch and they keep winning. Which is it, now?

Who are the giant sample of players who have gotten worse?

The only ones who have dropped considerable stats are Bosh/Love and that's easy to explain.

Wade eventually dropped stats but that's due to age/injuries; his first year his stats did drop but so did Bron in year 1 with the Heat when they basically split option #1.

Disclaimer: this is from 2016

The players have better statistics with Lebron but as soon as he leaves their stats decline and the team starts sucking, so they didn't actually get better, they just appear to.

That's one of the best trolls I've ever seen. Kudos

Lol

Can we get these numbers for Steph and KD when the other is off the floor? My guess would be they both make each other worse.

How about Scottie Pippen career on the Bulls with MJ off? My guess is he averaged more points per 36 min but I can't understand why

Wow, basically what you're showing is Kyrie goes from #2 option to #1 option, his FGA basically goes up 50% and his FG% increases by 1%. This of course disregards D or team defensive stats. This analysis doesn't look at anything advanced just a player who takes more shots when the #1 option is on the bench scores more basically at the same %. Great facts to the table as always AJ. Also, this analysis doesn't show how many minutes each of these stats are sampled from....I guess ESPN doesn't like for it's viewers to garner context.

It's really not a troll and it's truly mind bottling that several of you can't grasp an insanely simple concept that stats are contextual and don't = how good of a player someone is.

Except you never really posts stats and just post your simpleton opinion.

Are you the only one that judges whether a player gets better or worse under Lebron or MJ? What should I look for when judging it so I can come to the same conclusion you do? You basically post "Trump" like posts, "We have the best stats" but we won't share them or do the analysis to prove our point.

No context sounds right up your alley wannabe caponequant0.