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LeBron = GOAT Containment Thread: SABR42, LuckyLloyd, & borg23 Co-MVPs b/c of post #20163 LeBron = GOAT Containment Thread: SABR42, LuckyLloyd, & borg23 Co-MVPs b/c of post #20163
View Poll Results: GOAT?
labron
181 30.37%
MJ (Michael or Maple)
318 53.36%
Therapist
8 1.34%
George Mikan
5 0.84%
Shaq Attaq
21 3.52%
Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo)
13 2.18%
Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan
20 3.36%
"Roger Murdock"
3 0.50%
Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?)
9 1.51%
Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh)
18 3.02%

Today , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt R.
My prediction: the statement of Jokic needing more rings to be considered GOAT is going to morph into “rings don’t matter RANGZRANGZRANGZ. Is Robert Horry GOAT? lolol” and the “the only thing that matters is longevity you have to be good for exactly 21 seasons.”

I know this because LeBron Stans are nothing if not predictable.
nah it's the opposite. It's always "rangz, nothing else matters" except of course when Bill Russel is mentioned and then all of the sudden that lazy argument goes right out the window.
LeBron = GOAT Containment Thread: SABR42, LuckyLloyd, & borg23 Co-MVPs b/c of post #20163 Quote
Today , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23

Hubert Davis can say he went to the moon it doesn't make it true.

Pippen didn't touch him.


Enlarge this gif if needed - pippen hacks Hubert so that Hubert's hand/wrist is knocked to the left and it sends the shot wayward as well:


HOF announcer Hubie Brown said it was a clear-cut hack right after it happened on live TV:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3FbvWSZQkY&t=01m28s


So you're just lying again to continue the fraudulent Lebron goat case - but you're caught red-handed this time because the video is clear.. it's sad - you're brainwashed or blind!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23

Notice how when you say Pippen sucked in certain series he actually did suck in ,I don't dispute it. But when I mention how well he played in 94 your retort is he sucked in the 89 ecf . Which has ****ing NOTHING to do with 94. Oh and teams didn't try against the bulls in 94 that was a good one!


Pippen was outplayed by Ewing in the 94' ECSF and averaged 3.0 on 20% in the 4th quarter of that series - that's why Phil instinctively went away from Pippen in crunch-time and it worked - great move by Phil to avoid Pippen in the clutch.. It's too bad he couldn't avoid Pippen for the rest of the 4th as well (3.0 on 20%).

And the point about the 89' ECF is that Jordan lost in 6 games because Pippen literally missed game 6 and basically missed Game 5 too... 10 points from Pippen in these games or the "migraine" game the following year would've allowed MJ to beat the Pistons in 89' and 90'... So the point is that Jordan didn't need anything to beat the Pistons and when he finally started winning from 91-98', he was basically getting these 10 points or total garbage from Pippen - this includes 19 on 42% for his Finals career, or 17 on 41% for the 96-98' Playoffs, or 16 on 40% in multiple critical 7-game series and Finals, or worst-ever shooting splits for the 93' run and 96-98' runs.

So Jordan never had a good cast - the 91' cast was exactly the same as the 89' cast except Pippen/BJ increased by 4 ppg each - neither contributed anymore in the clutch - it was still all MJ every game... That's why the PER, BPM, WS/48 and VORP figures and "gap analysis" performed earlier shows that Jordan had 6 carry-job rings similar to Dirk or Hakeem's one-off carry-jobs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23

I mean I'm not pretending the 94 bulls are some all time great team but they'd absolutely smoke every single Cavs team LeBron was on if you remove LeBron


due to superior developed chemistry, not superior talent

Lebron's team had better supporting talent such as franchise players at 2nd and 3rd option, but Jordan's team would win more without him due to the developed chemistry just like Curry or Jokic's teams would also win more without them for the same reason...

But by no means is Pippen, Klay or Murray anywhere near a franchise player like AD, Wade or even Kyrie, and of course their 3rd options aren't franchise guys either like Bosh or Love were.. From 2011-2016, only Lebron's teams had 3 franchise players on 1 team (super-team), so they were the preseason favorite every year - Durant's only mistake was waiting 6 years to respond..




Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23

Speaking of the 98 ECF- Pippen and Jordan both SUCKED ass in game 7. Kukoc bailed them out. Jordan controls the narrative in a documentary on that team. They spend about half an hour on that game and don't mention Kukoc once. That's some fallguy level spin.


Do yourself a favor and re-watch the 4th quarter of the 98' ECF - Jordan is making every play down the stretch - Kukoc helps keep it close through 3 quarters, along with Jordan, but Jordan is the dominant player down the stretch of that game.. Pippen was MIA for the series of course - his 16 on 39% was transition or flow points, so never anything that requires game-planning like closing out on shooters/spacers, or potentially doubling or helping on an iso player.. Only MJ required gameplanning like this, and occasionally Kukoc and closing out on Kerr - that's it - but the main issue was how to double-team MJ, which hurts your defensive rebounding, according to Van Gundy (here).

The fact that MJ could turn Kukoc into a guy that could give him spurts of offense is a testament to his CAREER of elevating teammates and teammates playing near capacity (career highs) alongside him.. this contrasts with Lebron's skillset that imposes spot-up roles - there's a long list of guys that cratered alongside this toxic skillset.. :Literally the biggest loser of all-time when we look at bad losses (sweep losses, record losses, upset losses, chokes, lotteries and locked up in a loss - this is 17 of 21 seasons) plus worst-ever Finals record = biggest loser in NBA history.
LeBron = GOAT Containment Thread: SABR42, LuckyLloyd, & borg23 Co-MVPs b/c of post #20163 Quote

      
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