LeBron = GOAT Containment Thread: SABR42, LuckyLloyd, & borg23 Co-MVPs b/c of post #20163 - Page 669 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

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LeBron = GOAT Containment Thread: SABR42, LuckyLloyd, & borg23 Co-MVPs b/c of post #20163

View Poll Results: GOAT?

labron

181 30.37%

MJ (Michael or Maple)

318 53.36%

Therapist

8 1.34%

George Mikan

5 0.84%

Shaq Attaq

21 3.52%

Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo)

13 2.18%

Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan

20 3.36%

"Roger Murdock"

3 0.50%

Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?)

9 1.51%

Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh)

18 3.02%

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10-01-2021 , 11:17 PM

#16701

FellaGaga-52

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt R.

Jordan
LeBron
Reggie Miller
Hakeem Olajuwon
Kevin Garnett

LeBron point forward. Jordan guards Steph.

Pre-2007 team is better at every position. They sweep with an average margin of 10+ points.

I like that team, would take Bird instead of Garnet.

Quote

10-02-2021 , 01:23 AM

#16702

muttiah

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt R.

Jordan
LeBron
Reggie Miller
Hakeem Olajuwon
Kevin Garnett

LeBron point forward. Jordan guards Steph.

Pre-2007 team is better at every position. They sweep with an average margin of 10+ points.

Reggie Miller lol

Quote

10-02-2021 , 02:02 AM

#16703

grando1.0

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Talking peaks? Hahaha MJ and LeBron plus one of infinitely possible combos is a favorite

Quote

10-02-2021 , 03:05 AM

#16704

fidstar-poker

I'm gonna need a hacksaw

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 32,993

Reggie lol, but Klay not lol?

Quote

10-02-2021 , 06:25 AM

#16705

Matt R.

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,864

Quote:

Originally Posted by muttiah

Reggie Miller lol

For shooting the basketball for the three points. He happens to be one of the goats at that.

Also, what fidstar said.

Quote

10-19-2021 , 11:42 PM

#16706

Montrealcorp

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These didn’t aged well …..

Quote:

Originally Posted by DodgerIrish

So confusing!

Give me Ben Simmons over Magic as my starting 4 tomorrow fwiw. The conversation isn't about who's more accomplished, but literally if peak Magic and peak Ben Simmons were available to me exactly as they are: there's no debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCheck

A few takes from this last page, last night's last dance, and espn first take this morning..

I think Simmons is more effective than Magic. No disrespect to Magic he's seems like a great guy. But he doesn't have all the intangibles a Ben Simmons has. Shot blocking and defense to name a couple. Both players weakness is shooting from outside, and although Magic's jumper is better right now, neither good enough to actually shoot so it doesn't help the Magic argument.

Guess I’ll stick to My respond:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

I just have no idea how u can see Ben is more effective.
You see Ben Simmons being mvp at least once in the league , mvp NBA final (if he ever get there) or the leader in any categories ?
Shrug .

Quote

10-21-2021 , 04:55 PM

#16707

Onlydo2days

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you would probably rather have your emails/texts filled with racism, sexism and homophobia than ben simmons stanning if they were to leak right now

Quote

10-21-2021 , 09:12 PM

#16708

Matt R.

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,864

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

These didn’t aged well …..

Guess I’ll stick to My respond:

Lmao I remember those posts. Ben Simmons > Magic is literally peak SE NBA. In 5 years we’ll have nephews arguing a tall’ish 8th grader with some ball handling skills would school Magic because humans evolve at an exponential rate something something biology.

Quote

10-21-2021 , 10:37 PM

#16709

Montrealcorp

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Yeah me too I was remembering ( couldn’t figured who it was of course but the search was actually easy lol) something about overvaluing Simmons because , hey in the 1980 they sucked . ..

Pretty much the main reason i made a fun rewinding.

Quote

10-31-2021 , 09:52 PM

#16710

Tien

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt R.

I also think LeBron James would struggle if we dropped him into the late 80’s with no adjustment period. This doesn’t imply anything about which era is better.

Peak Matt R. nephew stupidity.

Just bumping this for the luls since Matt R. disappears and comes back once in a while after getting humiliated by me.

Quote

11-01-2021 , 09:31 AM

#16711

Matt R.

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,864

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

Peak Matt R. nephew stupidity.

Just bumping this for the luls since Matt R. disappears and comes back once in a while after getting humiliated by me.

TienTien with the smol PeenPeen. And huge intellectual insecurity. Don’t worry little buddy, I actually agree with you. You have convinced me with your superior arguments.

Humans evolve exp0nentially, which totally does not violate fundamental laws of Biology. Therefore LeBron >>> Jordan, Ben Simmons >>> Magic, Shaq would suck in 2021, Brandon Ingram would average 45 ppg in the 80’s, Clint Capela would have won 8 MVP’s in a row in Shaq’s era, and Jokic and Giannis are GOATs 1a and 1b. Who would have thought a fat Serbian is the greatest athlete of all time? It’s evolution baby.

Again, I am agreeing with you so no need to be salty or even more insecure than you are already. We already know that someone of your natural ab1lities is quite brilliant, wealthy, and p0werful and you def wouldn’t lie about such things on the intertubes. They only serve to bolster your already elite arguments.

Oh AND you watch basketball too. One of the few actually. How could anyone possibly know more than u oh great TienTien? Truly, Ben Simmons > Magic Johnson!

Quote

11-01-2021 , 09:38 AM

#16712

Matt R.

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,864

Oh, and FWIW, I did in fact notice you took a tiny snippet of my posts totally out of context to try to up your win total against me to something above zero. No need to be an insecure troll TienTien (remember, I as well as all others now acknowledge your superior arguments and Ben Simmons > Magic). I’m sure it was an accident tho (as someone of your basketball watching caliber would have no need to stoop to such tactics). The full post if you’d like to see it and address it with your exceptional slightly below average IQ is below for u to peruse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt R.

Well one, the average weight in the mid 80’s was 207-208 according to your source. In 2021 it is 217. That’s 9-10 pounds not 15.

Two weight has been gradually decreasing since 2015. If there was this linear increase in muscle mass over time because more muscles and heavier = better, that shouldn’t happen. Maybe in the 80’s they selected for different features like more agility or endurance so players weighed less. Admittedly without looking, I’m pretty positive elite players played more games and minutes in the 80’s (none of this load management crap), so they probably needed to carry less weight for longevity.

Brandon Ingram weighs 190 pounds at 6’8. He is an extremely weird data point to choose for muscle mass and strength advantages in players from 2021.

I said Towns would probably be top 5 after an adjustment period. You said Towns would dominate and be the best player ITL if we plopped him into a game. I definitely don’t agree with you. And I thought we were talking peak Towns. A few years ago he was probably in the 10-15 range. He’d probably bring some skill and athleticism advantages to the 70’s, looking at the players from that era. That’s why I put him top 5’ish. It’s a rough guess. There were a lot more elite players at the top in the 80’s and I don’t think I’d put him top 5 there.

I agree David Robinson would struggle if we just dropped him into 2021 with no adjustment period. But I also think LeBron James would struggle if we dropped him into the late 80’s with no adjustment period. This doesn’t imply anything about which era is better.

I don’t agree there are big differences between the 80’s and 90’s. Body weight is a super simplistic variable and it could easily be because they selected for more agile players with more endurance at the guard/forward positions.

It’s “made up” to me because it still... seems super made up. By the eye test the Lakers and Celtics from the 80’s look really freaking good to me, and that’s saying nothing about the athleticism of a young Jordan or Dominique. And the eye test is **** most of the time anyway. That’s literally why we have analytics.

Quote

11-01-2021 , 11:35 AM

#16713

grando1.0

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt R.

LeBron >>> Jordan

Perfect

Quote

11-01-2021 , 11:50 AM

#16714

Matt R.

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,864

Quote:

Originally Posted by grando1.0

Perfect

Don’t forget to include the equally plausible statements in that quote that Ben Simmons >>> Magic Johnson, Brandon Ingram would average 45 ppg in the 80’s and 90’s and thus would be in the GOAT convo if he played a couple decades earlier, Clint Capela would dominate prime Shaq, and Jokic is the true GOAT since he’s the MVP of the most recent year (ie the top m0st point of the exp0nential curve of the human evolutions).

Wouldn’t want to leave the full logic and context out of SE NBA’s most iron clad of all arguments. Exponential growth to peak nephew. TienTien and mullen, watching more basketball than Oscar Robertson. GOAT analytics tandem. Sort by birth year.

Quote

11-06-2021 , 08:51 PM

#16715

mullen

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tien

Peak Matt R. nephew stupidity.

Just bumping this for the luls since Matt R. disappears and comes back once in a while after getting humiliated by me.

I see Matt R has been going on about something related to Clint Capela - I had forgotten what happened here, so looked into it (this is pretty long and some posts are shortened, but here it is):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt R.

If we plopped Clint Capela into the 2000 NBA finals, how much would he dominate Shaq, then, in your opinion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mullen

You’re still missing my point here - first of all, Shaq didn’t play in the 1980s. Second, he’s an all time great - outlier level talent. The comparison would more be against a league average center at the time (1980s), to which point my answer would be that Capela would do quite well. There’s a guy named “Alvan Adams” that looks to have had a nice run in the early to mid 1980s. Looks well above average actually with a 3.4 BPM from 1981 to 1985. I think Capela would destroy him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt R.

I don’t think I’m missing your point at all. This is exactly what you said:

You know an order of magnitude is a LOT right? And you said orderS. This is a massive, massive difference you are explicitly claiming. And presumably this did not happen overnight, yes? Like it occurred (more or less) in increments between the 1980’s and now.

So there must still be a huuuge difference in league and average player quality between now and 2000. Shaq played in 2000. He did really well, but it was against total **** competition compared to 2021. (Remember, relentless exponential improvement in league and player quality.)

Clint Capela, much like Ingram, is a borderline all star. Surely he would totally dominate in an era that was soooo inferior to 2021, based on the fact that you guys keep saying over and over and over again that the league just massively improves over time.

Remember, an order of magnitude is huge, orders of magnitude is even more huge. And 2000 is at the halfway point. At a MINIMUM Clint Capela would be a decent amount better than Shaq in 2000, right? I’m just wondering by how much.

Unless you want to walk any of this back. Then feel free to tell me what you meant instead.

(Don’t worry, personality disorder Victor is going to swoop in sometime soon and claim I’m lying or that I’m the one committing a straw man here, even though I’m quoting you directly. I’ll try not to let him distract me this time, as he seems to be pretty useless.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mullen

You are absolutely missing my point. I outlined my opinion already and also deferred to a few posts where only2days also gave some thoughts I agreed with.

The above post is almost entirely strawmen, things I didn’t say, and I suppose a subjective take on what an order of magnitude is. You aren’t quoting me directly - I never said Clint Capela is better than Shaq or even that he would dominate in 2000. Capela is a big who is a defensive specialist.

There’s really nothing to debate here - it’s all just opinions on the level of competition based on eye test and subjectivity. You tried to use Jason Kidd as an example of an aging player competing - but he’s a clear outlier and actually it’s very clearly gotten more difficult for older players to remain positive to elite players over the years as outlined in my post with BPM leaders by age grouping. Now your argument is that the level of competition hasn’t progressed much - that’s fine to believe - but let’s not act like you’re quoting my words about Clint Capela being dominant over Shaq in 2000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mullen

I didn’t bring up Shaq or 2000. I posted my opinion and you strawmanned it into this 2000 argument. To be honest, I don’t think you understand basketball very well. Anyone who thinks LeBron James would struggle to adjust to 80s ball is not someone I’m going to see eye to eye with on any basketball topic really (irrespective of MJ opinions). I imagine you feel the same about someone who thinks he would crush that era. So we can agree to disagree here and I won’t engage you further since this is a waste of time.

Cliff Notes here is:

-during a discussion of 1980s basketball being inferior, Matt (himself) brings up Clint Capela and implies other think he’d dominate Shaq.

-I point out that Shaq didn’t play in the 80s nor did I (or anyone else say) he’d be dominated by Capela.

-Matt types a longer post about how the 1980s stuff also means Capela >>>>> Shaq (??) then angrily insults Victor who wasn’t even participating in the discussion. He also claimed to be quoting me directly when he was not.

-I once again point out that Capela would not dominate Shaq and exit the conversation due to his bizarre behavior.

Now he shows up months later and tries to make it seem like other people said this? Lmao

Quote

11-06-2021 , 08:58 PM

#16716

Schlitz mmmm

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pure Aids extract, distilled down to .000004 ppm impurities, leaving only densely refined Human immunodeficiency virus

Quote

11-10-2021 , 11:55 AM

#16717

gg305

stranger

Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by trainwreckog

i think if mj played tonight instead of 20 years ago, you would probably take this back. but after 20 years, sure.. bron's better. he crushed it last night.

as if mj didn't have to do everything for his team and take a higher scoring load then bron does..

if mj had gotten to continue running the doug collins offense like bron currently gets to do, rather than the triangle, his numbers would be even more superior to brons than they already are. but he had to give up win share to steve kerr, as the triangle (correctly) dictates.
.

The bolded above is twog saying what he assumes Seadood is thinking, not what twog it's thinking

People have misconstrued it 10 years after the fact because no one remembered the context of the discussion at the time

It really should say "you think" after the word "sure".. Then it would be understandable to posters 10 years later.

It should say "you think Lebron is better last night just because he crushed it last night, aka recency bias"

Recency bias is the point that is being made there

That's all

Quote

11-19-2021 , 10:25 AM

#16718

SABR42

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Any all-time starting 5 has to include this guy. This is the best offensive player of all-time (assuming the 3-point line exists).

Quote

11-19-2021 , 07:10 PM

#16719

FellaGaga-52

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I don't even know, how many players have won titles with 3 different teams let's say as key cogs/starters?

Quote

11-19-2021 , 08:01 PM

#16720

FellaGaga-52

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52

I don't even know, how many players have won titles with 3 different teams let's say as key cogs/starters?

I see it listed as just Horry, Salley, James and Danny Green.

Quote

11-25-2021 , 03:36 AM

#16721

AllBlackDan

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Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 6,329

LeWhine dropping out of the top 10 list after this pathetic display

https://twitter.com/ActionNetworkHQ/...EpAU9b5kw&s=19

Quote

11-25-2021 , 04:31 AM

#16722

FellaGaga-52

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Yeah the Drama King got his feelings hurt, had a dude and his young date thrown out of the arena. The young gal mocked Bronnie by rubbing her eyes saying he was a crybaby. Too good. Doesn't Bronnie Baby know getting rabbit ears about now will only ratchet it up in every arena he visits? Or does his little drama impulse call the shots and overrule a more reasoned course of action? This dude is phony as a $3.5 bill.

Quote

11-25-2021 , 02:17 PM

#16723

candybar

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 4,234

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllBlackDan

LeWhine dropping out of the top 10 list after this pathetic display

https://twitter.com/ActionNetworkHQ/...EpAU9b5kw&s=19

Quote:

Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52

Yup, I guess this is a totally normal thing to say and Lebron is just thin-skinned:

https://lakersdaily.com/heres-the-di...owards-lebron/

Quote:

Pacers fans who got kicked out allegedly told LeBron James, ‘I hope Bronny dies in a car wreck’

Quote

11-25-2021 , 02:28 PM

#16724

candybar

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 4,234

I mean this is just embarrassing - Lebron's been heckled probably more than any other basketball player in history, by virtue of being a controversial superstar with a very long career. Do you guys really not have the ability to think, well, Lebron's probably heard it all and seen it all, yet Lebron is responding in a way that he hasn't before and the refs/security are complying with his request, it must be that they must have said/done something that's quite clearly out of line? For example, Lebron didn't even really respond to something like this:

https://deadspin.com/warriors-fan-ca...kly-1710412535

Last edited by candybar; 11-25-2021 at 02:33 PM.