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View Poll Results: GOAT?
labron 176 31.77%
MJ (Michael or Maple) 286 51.62%
Therapist 8 1.44%
George Mikan 4 0.72%
Shaq Attaq 19 3.43%
Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo) 12 2.17%
Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan 20 3.61%
"Roger Murdock" 3 0.54%
Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?) 9 1.62%
Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh) 17 3.07%
Voters: 554. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Today, 05:43 PM   #16551
3balI
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Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 485
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post

hes shifting the argument. he claims Lebron quits when the chips are down. I thoroughly proved that claim idiotic. so he pivots to "well if Lebron was so good then he NEVER would have even faced such situations."


Lebron had record blowouts where his team quit in 2014 and 2018, or upset losses where the media discussed Lebron quitting in 2011 and 2010.

So what more is needed to demonstrate that he quits? It's the historical record..

Furthermore, he quit and formed super-teams.. Before the "decision", Lebron was a 1-trick pony like Iverson or Dwight, while Kidd and Wade had actually done much more than him..

Ultimately, Lebron was lottery or 2nd Round loss in 04', 05', 06', 08', and 10'... so he quit and took the cheat-code route.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post

these same iconic plays prove Lebron's clutchness thereby destroying another of the haters most repeated falsehoods.


No one said Lebron isn't clutch - he's clutch - it's just nowhere near Jordan.

For example, Devin Booker made 34 shots from mid-range so far in these playoffs, so he might finish with half the makes that Jordan had in the 97' or 98' Playoffs (120 each year).. Booker shoots a lot of threes, but the relevant point is how insane a mid-range shooter that Jordan was (the goat shooter from mid-range, and therefore the goat clutch player)..

Ultimately, Jordan is the only all-time athlete that was also an all-time shooter from either mid-range, threes, or FT's... The real all-time athletes like Giannis, Lebron, Dr. J, Wilt, Kemp, Zion, etc - none of them were elite shooters, let alone all-time like Jordan's mid-range.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post

these same iconic plays prove Lebron's clutchness


Down the stretch of tight Playoff games (last 5 within 5):


2006 - 2018 LEBRON... 134-323... 41.4%... 108 games... 3.0 attempts per game

1997 & 1998 JORDAN'..... 42-89... 47.2%..... 25 games... 3.6 attempts per game


TLDR: Down the stretch of tight playoff games (last 5 within 5), Lebron shot 41% on 3.0 attempts per game in the 2006-2018 Playoffs, compared to 47% on 3.6 attempts for 97' and 98' Jordan (20% more attempts on better efficiency)


On game-winners, Lebron has a lower frequency of winners, lower efficiency on them, NONE in 10 Finals (0-8) and most of his winners are miss-and-overtime, not miss-and-go-home.. And no series-walk-offs (Jordan has 2). So again, Lebron is not on Jordan's level.

Furthermore, it's a statistical fact that Lebron avoids/defers contested jumpers - he almost never takes them compared to his peers - this factor destroys him compared to all-time clutch players.. He's still clutch, but dimensions below goat-caliber (Jordan).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post

these same iconic plays prove Lebron's clutchness


His clutch is simply dimensions below the best.

The triangle required bailouts on various possessions throughout the game, and within the offense - so MJ/Kobe developed a reputation for bailing out the Bulls on quick turnarounds and pull-ups throughout the game in the triangle.. It was their role within the offense, which increased their clutch role over a lower usage guy in the clutch like Lebron.
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Old Today, 06:36 PM   #16552
3balI
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Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 485
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Jordan is the RAPTOR plus/minus goat

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-was-the-best/
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