Woyaz 3 of the top 20 players in the league plus second rated 6th man plus being on the cutting edge of 3-ball revolution. Arguing that they were young (first time all-stars) hardly argues against it. Albert Pujols was a first time all-star in 2001 ... what's that mean he wasn't a superstar because it was his first year as a superstar? LOL>

Your definition of superteam must be when a group of established superstars conspire to join each other on a team, not how good a team is. How about the 1967 76ers, were they a superteam? Why or why not?

Glad to see the best Lakers teams (2000-02) on that list. LOL

3ball, do you think they're only doctoring older posts?

My posts in this thread look super-awkward now that 3ball's been perma'ed and his posts deleted.

Damn he left the thread and got boom hammered.

This is a decent list (and much better write-ups) - worth reading through if you are interested in basketball history:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/vie....php?t=2012241

I don't think the list is *that* accurate so take this with a grain of salt but it certainly supports the idea that Lebron faced much tougher competition in the playoffs, especially when both had legit title chances.

MJ played 4 top 100 teams in his 6 Finals runs and none of them in the top 60.

64. 1997 Jazz (won)
74. 1992 Blazers (won)
75. 1996 SuperSonics (won)
100. 1991 Lakers (won)

Lebron played 9 top 100 teams in his 10 Finals runs, all of them in the top 60 and 4 of them, top-9.

1. 2017 Warriors (lost)
5. 2018 Warriors (lost)
7. 2014 Spurs (lost)
9. 2015 Warriors (lost)
21. 2013 Spurs (won)
26. 2016 Warriors (won)
27. 2007 Spurs (lost)
41. 2011 Mavericks (lost)
56. 2012 Thunder (won)

Somehow all of those 13 top-100 teams they faced were in the Finals. And this means 9 of Lebron's 10 opponents in the Finals are ranked higher than any team MJ faced during his championship runs. That is nuts.

Outside of these Finals runs, MJ played 4 top-100 teams:

6. 1986 Celtics (lost)
28. 1989 Pistons (lost)
60. 1990 Pistons (lost)
97. 1988 Pistons (lost)

Outside of these Finals runs, Lebron played 3 top-100 teams:

54. 2008 Celtics (lost)
90. 2010 Celtics (lost)
92. 2009 Magic (lost)

Playoff series record by team tier (as of 2020, since 2021 teams aren't ranked yet):

Against top 10: Lebron: 0-4, MJ, 0-1
Against next 40: Lebron: 2-2, MJ: 0-1
Against next 50: Lebron: 1-3, MJ: 4-2
Against teams outside of top 100: Lebron: 36-1, MJ: 27-3

Restricting to seasons where they had legitimate championship equity, as in, they either had or would've had a significant chance of winning it all if they got luckier with who they got to face (MJ: 89-93, 95-98, Lebron: 07-18, 20):

Against top 10: Lebron: 0-4, MJ, 0-0
Against next 40: Lebron: 2-2, MJ: 0-1
Against next 50: Lebron: 1-3, MJ: 4-1
Against teams outside of top 100: Lebron: 34-0, MJ: 27-1

So against top 100 teams in finals Lebron was 3-6 and Jordan was 4-0. Sounds like a SoS argument to me.

You've literally cherry picked a stat that you openly admit that you don't think is too accurate.

That's next level stuff.

Man it appears 3ball cursed Giannis...

When the site bans a poster, it just deletes all of their posts? Thread is unreadable now. Not that TWD was coherent either way but damn.

I respect his hustle, that dude would probably take a bullet for Jordan.

not usually. I dunno who or why his posts are gone. its really dumb.

maybe it had to do with this

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...38&postcount=2

yeah it deleted all MIKE MALONE's stuff too, he was ray horton pretty sure

just haven't seen that before

well ya, some ppl get cleaned out when they are perpetual trolls. and iirc, the software makes it easy to ban and remove posts of new users but its not as easy for long time users.

yeah not even sure what MALONE got banned for, even tho he was obv raids ghosting he was being normal from what I saw

and TZ is dead enough anyway that it wasn't like he was bothering anyone

heh, I remember him RAIDsing hard as Malone. and he does often start normal and then just find a way to get under someone's skin with every single post.

and now this thread is gonna die

Him being banned makes sense since that was like his 50th account. Agree that wiping all the posts is unfortunate for the thread though. You can probably find the same copy pastes under different accounts if you really wanted.

And rightly so.

the two r*tards candybar and twog just got 5 hours of their day freed up

Lol

So nothing has changed?

Not sure that is a net gain for the world

Chamberlain Career

1956: On Kansas JV team, freshman ineligible for varsity. Same thing as 10 years later when Alcindor is on UCLA JV team and ineligible. Their JV teams could win it all. Phog Allen who recruited him retired after this season and Wilt and new coach Harp didn’t “see eye-to-eye.”

1957: Loses NCAA final in triple overtime UNC 54 - Kansas 53, against quadruple team, stall, and racism, and hostile coach. Pretty sour start losing up against that. (1st OT 2-2, 2nd OT 0-0, 3rd OT 6-5, UNC basically refused to play basketball to beat him).

1958: KU loses three games when he’s out injured and by not winning conference they don’t qualify for NCAA Tournament.

1959: He comes out after junior year but NBA disallows entry into league. He plays with Globetrotters for a year who retire his jersey. Meadowlark in awe of him.

1960: Wilt’s rookie year. Interestingly Warriors started the season 8-1 with the one loss to the Celtics. Foreshadowing, perhaps. They go 49-26, 2nd in East to Celtics, big jump from losing record the year before. Lose to dynasty Celtics 4-2 in east finals, clincher by 2 pts. Chamberlain’s stats were obscene of course, with most games Boston winning close. Critical Game 3 at 1-1 Chamberlain suffered some kind of injury can’t trace it down, Warriors blown out.

1961: Warrior 43-33, 2nd in east to Celtics. Swept in 1st round by Syracuse Nationals. Chamberlain 37 pts, 18 boards per game.

1962: 49-31, 2nd in east to Celtics. Lose in playoffs in eastern finals to Celtics, by 2 points in Game 7.

1964: (now S.F. Warriors), 31-49, miss playoffs

1965: 48-32, 1st in West, lose 4-1 in finals to Celtics.

1966: Chamberlain leaves Warriors and they drop to 17-63, worst team in NBA, 76ers go 55-25, 1st in east, lose to Celtics 4-1

1967: 68-13 record breaking season, end Celtics run of titles blowing them off the floor 4-1 in east finals, beat Warriors in finals 4-2 (with Rick Barry avg. 41 pts and Nate Thurmond, Wilt’s old backup averaging 27 rebounds, Chamberlain avg. 18 pts and 28 rebounds in the series incredibly the 18 pts. Is the 5th highest ppg. Avg. on the Sixers in the series ((Hal Greer, Chet Walker, Billy Cunningham, Wali Jones all average more than Wilt’s 18), Chamberlain’s first NBA title.

1968: 62-20, 1st in east, up 3-1 on Celtics in east finals, lose series 3-1, Game 7 by 4 pts. Celtics beat Lakers 4-2 in NBA Finals. This season is regarded somewhat like Curry’s Warriors juggernaut blowing up 3-1 to James Cavs.

1969: Traded to Lakers, Lakers go 55-27 1st in West, they go up 2-0 and 3-2 in NBA finals but lose in 7 games to Celtics by 2 points (Russell’s last game as player)

1970: Lakers go 46-36, 2nd in West, lose in NBA Finals in Game 7 to Knicks “Willis Reed Game” (my favorite player back then)

1971: 48-34, 1st in West, lose to Alcindor/Oscar superteam in division finals 4-1, Bucks constantly winning by 20-ish, Wilt meanwhile goes 20-20 three times in series


1972: 69-13 record setting season, beat Knicks 4-1 in Finals, his second NBA title.

1973: 60-22, 1st in West, lose to Knicks 4-1 in NBA Finals

So the brutality is kind of the NCAA Finals 3-OT loss, four Game 7 losses to title team including three years in a row, loss to Alcindor/Oscar superteam, Curry Warriors type loss with mega-team up 3-1 in series, and general ownership by Celtics.

It also kind of begs the question, among other things, what player had the all-time highest winning percentage in his career (say minimum 750 or 1000 games played)?

He gets little to no consideration in GOAT discussions. That’s kind of like leaving Ted Williams out of GOAT hitter candidates.

Averaged 30 points, 23 rebounds, 4.5 assists, no doubt one of the top five or so shot blockers. Super Iron Man. He spearheaded the leagues two greatest teams before Jordan and Curry came along. He's not a 2% GOAT type as in the poll.

* Left a year out somewhere.

Kawhi.