Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

View Poll Results: GOAT?
labron 176 31.88%
MJ (Michael or Maple) 285 51.63%
Therapist 8 1.45%
George Mikan 4 0.72%
Shaq Attaq 19 3.44%
Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo) 12 2.17%
Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan 20 3.62%
"Roger Murdock" 3 0.54%
Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?) 9 1.63%
Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh) 16 2.90%
Voters: 552. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-12-2021, 08:20 PM   #15851
Tien
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Tien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eating NothingBurgers
Posts: 7,209
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp View Post
The Utah jazz swept the lakers (shaq/kobe) , swept Spurs ( Robinson/Duncan eventually nba champion the year following ) and beat Hakeem,drexler, Barkley .
Kobe came off the bench in 1998 averaging 15/3/3 on 41%, how is that good? You forget that? Kobe only started playing well in 2000. A monster Shaq and Kobe team!

1998 Spurs had a rookie Tim Duncan. Yeah beating Rookie Tim Duncan means you were a real monster team.

You and Matt R. don't even remember your own history from your era.
Tien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 08:26 PM   #15852
Tien
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Tien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eating NothingBurgers
Posts: 7,209
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp View Post
I know , it’s getting frustrated .
Hakeem destroyed shaq by himself .
Utah destroyed shaq .

Than shaq destroy the nba early 2000 .
Shaq destroyed the NBA early 2000 because he had top 3 player in the league Kobe Bryant (top 10 all time talent) next to him. That Kobe didn't exist from 1997-1999.


Jordan never had to face a team like this in the 90s:

Team------------- Year------G---- W----L------ W–L% Finish Result
San Antonio 2000–01 82 58 24 .707 1st in Midwest Lost in Conference Finals
San Antonio 2001–02 82 58 24 .707 1st in Midwest Lost in Conference Semifinals
San Antonio 2002–03 82 60 22 .732 1st in Midwest Won NBA Championship
San Antonio 2003–04 82 57 25 .695 2nd in Midwest Lost in Conference Semifinals
San Antonio 2004–05 82 59 23 .720 1st in Southwest Won NBA Championship
San Antonio 2005–06 82 63 19 .768 1st in Southwest Lost in Conference Semifinals
San Antonio 2006–07 82 58 24 .707 2nd in Southwest Won NBA Championship
San Antonio 2007–08 82 56 26 .683 2nd in Southwest Lost in Conference Finals


Made the finals 4 out of 9 years while having to battle prime Shaq.

Last edited by Tien; 05-12-2021 at 08:33 PM.
Tien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 08:34 PM   #15853
Tien
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Tien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eating NothingBurgers
Posts: 7,209
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt R. View Post
Careful montreal. You’re gonna make the Bron Bron stans realize that a lot of these players overlapped between the careers of MJ and LeBron, and Bron Bron stans don’t like facts. They like to think 38 year old Jason Kidd was ultra elite, Kyrie sucks because that would help the LeStan narrative, and Olajuwon was mediocre because he played in the 90’s. Once you start pointing out guys like Shaq, Duncan, Kidd, Kobe overlapped both “eras” (lol the year old Jordan retired found LeBron joining the league 4 months later) heads will start spinning and they’re gonna lose their LeRections.
You co-opt Montreal Corp and 3ball who both make terrible arguments.


3ball turned into an Uncle Tom and Montreal Corp is barely legible in his writing. Great bunch of scholars on your team.

Last edited by Tien; 05-12-2021 at 08:39 PM.
Tien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 09:17 PM   #15854
Montrealcorp
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Montrealcorp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,793
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tien View Post
Kobe came off the bench in 1998 averaging 15/3/3 on 41%, how is that good? You forget that? Kobe only started playing well in 2000. A monster Shaq and Kobe team!

1998 Spurs had a rookie Tim Duncan. Yeah beating Rookie Tim Duncan means you were a real monster team.

You and Matt R. don't even remember your own history from your era.
Actually I made it on purpose lol ....



You bring up okc in 2011 right ???
Harden was 12 ppg , second season , bragging the mavs beating them were awesome ...
Russel was just starting to emerge as well .first year all star in 2011 , exactly like kobe .
A 55 win team . 2 all stars .

Laker in 1998 shaq /kobe was a freakn 61 win team .
They had 4 all star that year !
The jazz Spey them .

The year after , Spurs wins freakn title .
So you think in 2 month during summer what happened if you think they sucked ?
Duncan in his first year was an all star ....
He was already a freakn 21 ppg/11 rbn /2 assist ffs with a great coach ( in case an idiot bring up Phil Jackson factor ) .
A 56 win team .
The jazz crush them 4-1

Claiming the mav would be in the best in the 1990 is non sense .
Jason Kidd played during that era dam it .
Is Jason kid better at 38 or 25 ?


Every dam reason you speak about weak teams during Jordan era were present during Lebron era ....

Get real , the loss of Lebron vs mav was a freakn joke !

Ps: and that monster team in 2004 lost !

Last edited by Montrealcorp; 05-12-2021 at 09:46 PM.
Montrealcorp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 09:27 PM   #15855
Montrealcorp
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Montrealcorp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,793
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tien View Post
Shaq destroyed the NBA early 2000 because he had top 3 player in the league Kobe Bryant (top 10 all time talent) next to him. That Kobe didn't exist from 1997-1999.


Jordan never had to face a team like this in the 90s:

Team------------- Year------G---- W----L------ W–L% Finish Result
San Antonio 2000–01 82 58 24 .707 1st in Midwest Lost in Conference Finals
San Antonio 2001–02 82 58 24 .707 1st in Midwest Lost in Conference Semifinals
San Antonio 2002–03 82 60 22 .732 1st in Midwest Won NBA Championship
San Antonio 2003–04 82 57 25 .695 2nd in Midwest Lost in Conference Semifinals
San Antonio 2004–05 82 59 23 .720 1st in Southwest Won NBA Championship
San Antonio 2005–06 82 63 19 .768 1st in Southwest Lost in Conference Semifinals
San Antonio 2006–07 82 58 24 .707 2nd in Southwest Won NBA Championship
San Antonio 2007–08 82 56 26 .683 2nd in Southwest Lost in Conference Finals


Made the finals 4 out of 9 years while having to battle prime Shaq.

Listen ... I’m not the one claiming the players in the 1990 sucked , you are ....

FYI , I always claim Duncan had a much tougher career than Lebron .
There is a reason Lebron get swept often in the finals , he was playing in a freakn joke conference for a decade .
Infinitely worst than MJ .

It’s you guys that keep bringing up the 2005/15 players are much better than mj time while a lot of them were playing in the 1990s already ....
It make no sense at all

And btw , Jordan did faced incredible strong team , wtf your talking about , he lost vs them even when mj was the best player around
It was called the 80s .
But since a lot of you think players in a higher decade are always better .
Magic, bird and kareem must of been terrible in today’s game and probably in the 1990 and early 2000 ...

Last edited by Montrealcorp; 05-12-2021 at 09:55 PM.
Montrealcorp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 10:19 PM   #15856
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,489
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3balI View Post
^^^ that's a lot more common then you think.

again, selective journalism at best and therefore part of his branding.






it's a manufactured narrative because it shouldn't be brought up at all, given how common it is..

it's ostensibly selective journalism to harp on it with Lebron, and therefore a manufactured narrative.. Lebron's fine with it, so it's just marketing at the end of the day.
this makes no sense. and if it is common that female citizens of the richest country in the history of mankind need to turn tricks to get by then there is clearly a problem with our society.

regardless, you are making **** up as usual. Lebron sure as **** doesnt advertise the things his mom did. nor does he get into details of his childhood. it is sugarcoated, glossed over, and euphemistic. thats bc our society does not accept such actions despite making it necessary for millions of people to engage in them to survive.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 11:45 PM   #15857
Victor
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Victor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 65,489
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp View Post
Listen ... Iím not the one claiming the players in the 1990 sucked , you are ....

FYI , I always claim Duncan had a much tougher career than Lebron .
There is a reason Lebron get swept often in the finals , he was playing in a freakn joke conference for a decade .
Infinitely worst than MJ .

Itís you guys that keep bringing up the 2005/15 players are much better than mj time while a lot of them were playing in the 1990s already ....
It make no sense at all

And btw , Jordan did faced incredible strong team , wtf your talking about , he lost vs them even when mj was the best player around
It was called the 80s .
But since a lot of you think players in a higher decade are always better .
Magic, bird and kareem must of been terrible in todayís game and probably in the 1990 and early 2000 ...
lebron got swept in the finals bc he dragged sasha pavlovic, boobie gibson, and drew gooden to the finals. those were the top 4 in minutes played. Mo Willaims wasnt on the team yet. and Varejao was not in his prime.

that was an all time great performance to drag those scrubs to the finals. twog uses selective stats to try to show that those players were at all competent when they were clearly worse than replacement level.
Victor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:15 AM   #15858
Matt R.
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,598
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tien View Post
Kobe came off the bench in 1998 averaging 15/3/3 on 41%, how is that good? You forget that? Kobe only started playing well in 2000. A monster Shaq and Kobe team!

1998 Spurs had a rookie Tim Duncan. Yeah beating Rookie Tim Duncan means you were a real monster team.

You and Matt R. don't even remember your own history from your era.
Ah wittle TienTien. You seem to have forgotten the context of the discussion of which your tiny TienTien mind is arguing. And your feathers are already ruffled. This does not bode well for u.

Remember, the claim was that the 90ís was awful and the 2000 and 2010ís were ultra elite. Not that the Lakers or any one specific player was good/bad in one specific year like 1998. You seem to have tripped over yourself and booped your nose on your LeStrawMan.

You see TienTien. Since players like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, and various others (there are a lot of others, since there is obviously a lot of overlap in players between 1999 and 2000 lmao) played across both decades, and quite literally NONE of them dominated the 90ís (the terrible era) (well um, because Jordan did haha) but did extremely well and put up hall of fame careers in the 00ís (the ultra elite bron bron era) that immediately refutes with extreme prejudice that the 90ís sucked in terms of basketball talent and the 00ís was some kind of golden era because the sweet succulence of LeBronís aura fueled the fire of a thousand LeBron stans.

Sorry TienTien. Did not mean to dismantle ur strawman so easily. Plz to be applying the full force of ur IQ to understanding the actual argument thank u lol.
Matt R. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:29 AM   #15859
Matt R.
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,598
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
lebron got swept in the finals bc he dragged sasha pavlovic, boobie gibson, and drew gooden to the finals. those were the top 4 in minutes played. Mo Willaims wasnt on the team yet. and Varejao was not in his prime.

that was an all time great performance to drag those scrubs to the finals. twog uses selective stats to try to show that those players were at all competent when they were clearly worse than replacement level.
Just so we’re clear, you are both kinda right.

LeBron got swept by the Spurs that year because, in part, his support was trash in 2007. But he also MADE THE FINALS that year in the first place because the East was completely terrible. The best player LeBron went up against in that playoff run in the East was probably Antawn Jamison.

I.e. it’s quite a bit easier to drag a terrible team to the finals when your competition consists of past his prime Rasheed Wallace, 34 year old Jason Kidd, and Antonio Daniels. (Related: lol you guys keep saying the 90’s and Hakeem Olajuwon sucked but the 2007 NBA that LeBron “dominated” by getting swept in the finals had these players in the East. No wait really lololol.)

Last edited by Matt R.; Yesterday at 12:36 AM.
Matt R. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:45 AM   #15860
Matt R.
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,598
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai- View Post
There you go fixed. Did lol at you trying to present the fact that he still won MVP that year as a point in favor of how tough and competitive the league was though
Wait what lol. Olajuwon was obviously at his peak in ‘93 and ‘94. What are you talking about?

I don’t understand what you’re saying about something being “a point in favor” about how tough and competitive the league was. Someone was saying the ‘94 Rockets were terrible. That was obviously super wrong and I showed that. I didn’t say anything about the non-Rockets in 1994.
Matt R. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:59 AM   #15861
mullen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
mullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 17,427
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt R. View Post
Just so weíre clear, you are both kinda right.

LeBron got swept by the Spurs that year because, in part, his support was trash in 2007. But he also MADE THE FINALS that year in the first place because the East was completely terrible. The best player LeBron went up against in that playoff run in the East was probably Antawn Jamison.

I.e. itís quite a bit easier to drag a terrible team to the finals when your competition consists of past his prime Rasheed Wallace, 34 year old Jason Kidd, and Antonio Daniels. (Related: lol you guys keep saying the 90ís and Hakeem Olajuwon sucked but the 2007 NBA that LeBron ďdominatedĒ by getting swept in the finals had these players in the East. No wait really lololol.)

Wait, wat? Antawn Jamison had a 1.3 BPM that year. He wasnít even the best player on his own team (Arenas had a 4.7 BPM and averaged 28/5/6). LeBron also faced Kidd, Vince Carter, Billups, Rasheed, Ben Wallace, HamiltonÖhell, even the old version of Chris Webber was better than Jamison.

Iím not sure why Kiddís age 33 season is somehow trying be used against him. Heís a Hall of Famer and one of the GOAT PGs with a game that aged well. He had very good numbers that year. Elite players crush at age 33 routinelyÖMJ, LeBron, Chris Paul, Curry etc.
mullen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:21 AM   #15862
Banzai-
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,475
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt R. View Post
Wait what lol. Olajuwon was obviously at his peak in Ď93 and Ď94. What are you talking about?

I donít understand what youíre saying about something being ďa point in favorĒ about how tough and competitive the league was. Someone was saying the Ď94 Rockets were terrible. That was obviously super wrong and I showed that. I didnít say anything about the non-Rockets in 1994.
Why was Olajuwon "at his peak" in 1994 but Dirk "still good but def not peak" in 2011 when they're like one year difference in age? Because he won the MVP? But the whole claim is that he managed to win the title with not much help because the league was very soft. That he also won the MVP at roughly an age where in the very same post that you're all but dismissing Dirk is a obviously a big data point in favour of a soft league.
Banzai- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:48 AM   #15863
Matt R.
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,598
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai- View Post
Why was Olajuwon "at his peak" in 1994 but Dirk "still good but def not peak" in 2011 when they're like one year difference in age? Because he won the MVP? But the whole claim is that he managed to win the title with not much help because the league was very soft. That he also won the MVP at roughly an age where in the very same post that you're all but dismissing Dirk is a obviously a big data point in favour of a soft league.
Players have different aging curves. I’m not looking at age. I’m looking at productivity. (Side note: looking at actual productivity and career success rather than eye test and biased personal subjective opinion is why I think Jordan > LeBron as well.)

Olajuwon was quite clearly at his best around ‘93 and ‘94. Dirk was at his best around ‘05 to ‘07 with a bit of a drop off after that (but still quite good; which I specifically said). After ‘11, the year he and 38 year old Jason Kidd beat LeBron’s superteam, the drop off was more pronounced.

The “whole claim” was not that the Rockets won in ‘94 because the league was soft. The “whole claim” was that the ‘94 Rockets were bad (Edit: specifically that they were a “garbage team”). Seriously, go back and read the post.

Last edited by Matt R.; Yesterday at 01:58 AM.
Matt R. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:52 AM   #15864
Matt R.
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,598
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mullen View Post
Wait, wat? Antawn Jamison had a 1.3 BPM that year. He wasn’t even the best player on his own team (Arenas had a 4.7 BPM and averaged 28/5/6). LeBron also faced Kidd, Vince Carter, Billups, Rasheed, Ben Wallace, Hamilton…hell, even the old version of Chris Webber was better than Jamison.

I’m not sure why Kidd’s age 33 season is somehow trying be used against him. He’s a Hall of Famer and one of the GOAT PGs with a game that aged well. He had very good numbers that year. Elite players crush at age 33 routinely…MJ, LeBron, Chris Paul, Curry etc.
Sigh. Arenas didn’t even play in that series.

I’m not talking about regular season stats/“best player”. I’m talking about who LeBron played in the actual playoffs, since we’re talking about LeBron making the finals with scrubs. Antawn was quite clearly one of the best, if not the best, performances he went up against in all of his Eastern playoff series that year.
Matt R. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 02:57 AM   #15865
Carnivore
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,375
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Relative to most championship team supporting casts, this team is garbage. Hakeem was a one man team that won that championship. Their number 2 scorer in the playoffs was Maxwell, who shot .376 from the field.

Hakeem led his team in all of points/rebounds/assists/blocks/steals in the playoffs. His cast was complete garbage and he did a bigger carry job than Jordan ever did.

Robert Horry 9.9 ppg/5.4 rpg/2.9 apg
Otis Thorpe (a Dennis Rodman type at best)
Vernon Maxwell 39% fg shooter
Kenny Smith 11.6 ppg/4.6apg/1.8 rpg
Mario Elie 9ppg/3apg/3rpg?
Sam Cassell 6.7 ppg/2.9apg/2.0 rpg


Put Toni Kukoc on that team and he becomes the 2nd option.

Last edited by Carnivore; Yesterday at 03:06 AM.
Carnivore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:04 AM   #15866
Montrealcorp
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Montrealcorp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,793
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
lebron got swept in the finals bc he dragged sasha pavlovic, boobie gibson, and drew gooden to the finals. those were the top 4 in minutes played. Mo Willaims wasnt on the team yet. and Varejao was not in his prime.

that was an all time great performance to drag those scrubs to the finals. twog uses selective stats to try to show that those players were at all competent when they were clearly worse than replacement level.
All time great performance beating 2 .500 team of 41 wins and a 53 win teams while being a 50 win team himself ?
Yup amazing...o0



If Lebron had to face celtics and pistons of the 80 , he would never pass the first round .
And lebron got swept in the final for a reason , he face a real good team .
It isn’t about being great , it’s about being lucky to be in a trash conference to reach a final ....

Thx proving my point.

Lebron is amazing for beating that in 07 with a 50 win team but get no knock down not reaching the final with a 66 win team in 2009 ?
Makes perfect sense ....

Victor keep saying Jordan had weak final Opponent to drag down his accomplishments but look how quick victor is to praise Lebron accomplishments vs trash in his own conference ...


Get real ffs ...
This is exactly why winning a final and reaching a final has 2 totally different meaning .

Mj dominate the league , Lebron dominate the east ...

Ps: to be clear , it’s good what Lebron did regardless but stop comparing this as if it’s as great as winning a title ...

Last edited by Montrealcorp; Yesterday at 03:33 AM.
Montrealcorp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:14 AM   #15867
mullen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
mullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 17,427
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt R. View Post
Sigh. Arenas didnít even play in that series.

Iím not talking about regular season stats/ďbest playerĒ. Iím talking about who LeBron played in the actual playoffs, since weíre talking about LeBron making the finals with scrubs. Antawn was quite clearly one of the best, if not the best, performances he went up against in all of his Eastern playoff series that year.

Itís not really relevant to anything but Jamison wasnít even a top 5 player in the that regular season, the playoffs, or historically speaking from a quality standpoint. The guy was barely a positive player for his career. He peaked as like an average starter. No need to make it one way when itís the other. In what universe is Antawn Jamison better than those guys? Kidd, Billups, and Carter are Hall of Famers who made the all star team in 2007 and had far better stats than Jamison. The Pistons team alone had 4-5 guys > Jamison (career and that season)
mullen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM   #15868
Tien
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Tien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eating NothingBurgers
Posts: 7,209
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp View Post
Actually I made it on purpose lol ....

You bring up okc in 2011 right ???
Harden was 12 ppg , second season , bragging the mavs beating them were awesome ...
Russel was just starting to emerge as well .first year all star in 2011 , exactly like kobe .
A 55 win team . 2 all stars .
In 2011:
Durant was 1st team all-nba
Westbrook was 2nd team all-nba

In 2012:
Durant was 1st team all-nba
Westbrook was 2nd team all-nba
Ibaka was 1st team all defense and 2nd in DPOY voting.
Harden was 6th man of the year.

Arguing with you is having to go back into history and teach you what actually happened in certain years.

It's a waste of time.
Tien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 11:41 AM   #15869
Tien
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Tien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eating NothingBurgers
Posts: 7,209
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt R. View Post
Ah wittle TienTien. You seem to have forgotten the context of the discussion of which your tiny TienTien mind is arguing. And your feathers are already ruffled. This does not bode well for u.

Remember, the claim was that the 90’s was awful and the 2000 and 2010’s were ultra elite. Not that the Lakers or any one specific player was good/bad in one specific year like 1998. You seem to have tripped over yourself and booped your nose on your LeStrawMan.

You see TienTien. Since players like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Kidd, and various others (there are a lot of others, since there is obviously a lot of overlap in players between 1999 and 2000 lmao) played across both decades, and quite literally NONE of them dominated the 90’s (the terrible era) (well um, because Jordan did haha) but did extremely well and put up hall of fame careers in the 00’s (the ultra elite bron bron era) that immediately refutes with extreme prejudice that the 90’s sucked in terms of basketball talent and the 00’s was some kind of golden era because the sweet succulence of LeBron’s aura fueled the fire of a thousand LeBron stans.

Sorry TienTien. Did not mean to dismantle ur strawman so easily. Plz to be applying the full force of ur IQ to understanding the actual argument thank u lol.
All that Matt R. full force IQ and he forgets to use it to remember what happened in NBA history! Thankfully you have Tien to lecture you.

Quote:
and quite literally NONE of them dominated the 90’s (the terrible era)(well um, because Jordan did haha)
Kobe was a 18 year old rookie in the 97. Kobe not being able to dominate at 18 years old is because of era right? Not because he is actually 18 years old straight out of high school. Lol Matt R.
Duncan was a rookie in the 98 and won in 1999. Duncan not winning in 1998 was because of Jordan, except Duncan was literally just a rookie, and Duncan didn't even face Jordan. Lol Matt R.

Shaq beat Jordan in 1995. So how did Jordan stop Shaq from advancing to the finals in 1995? You said this:
Quote:
NONE of them dominated the 90’s (the terrible era) (well um, because Jordan did haha)
Looks like you are wrong again.


You wrote up a few paragraphs feeling all good about yourself and it turns out to be another Matt R. total limp flop. Time for you to join 3ball in the loonie bin.

Last edited by Tien; Yesterday at 12:00 PM.
Tien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 12:05 PM   #15870
Tien
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Tien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eating NothingBurgers
Posts: 7,209
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Tim Duncan was unable to dominate in the 90s according to Matt R and only dominated in the 2000s. Let's look at his career a little closer.

Oh look! He never spent much time in the 90s! How can this be? But wait there's more! Matt R. says Tim Duncan could not dominate in the 90s literally because of the 1 year bolded below!

Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
1997–98 San Antonio 82* 82* 39.1 .549 .000 .662 11.9 2.7 .7 2.5 21.1
1998–99† San Antonio 50* 50* 39.3 .495 .143 .690 11.4 2.4 .9 2.5 21.7
1999–00 San Antonio 74 74 38.9 .490 .091 .761 12.4 3.2 .9 2.2 23.2
2000–01 San Antonio 82 82* 38.7 .499 .259 .618 12.2 3.0 .9 2.3 22.2
2001–02 San Antonio 82 82 40.6 .508 .100 .799 12.7 3.7 .7 2.5 25.5
2002–03† San Antonio 81 81 39.3 .513 .273 .710 12.9 3.9 .7 2.9 23.3
2003–04 San Antonio 69 68 36.6 .501 .167 .599 12.4 3.1 .9 2.7 22.3
2004–05† San Antonio 66 66 33.4 .496 .333 .670 11.1 2.7 .7 2.6 20.3
2005–06 San Antonio 80 80 34.8 .484 .400 .629 11.0 3.2 .9 2.0 18.6
2006–07† San Antonio 80 80 34.1 .546 .111 .637 10.6 3.4 .8 2.4 20.0
2007–08 San Antonio 78 78 34.0 .497 .000 .730 11.3 2.8 .7 1.9 19.3
2008–09 San Antonio 75 75 33.6 .504 .000 .692 10.7 3.5 .5 1.7 19.3


Oh no! That was because of Jordan! The cobwebs are starting to grow in Matt R.'s head and I have to spend 90% of the argument opening up a history book.
Tien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:55 PM   #15871
nucleardonkey
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Dropping bombs
Posts: 712
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3balI View Post
Lebron manufactured every aspect of career, from his tough childhood to his jumper
Your stupidest post ever. No one chooses his parents.
nucleardonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 06:38 PM   #15872
3balI
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 387
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by nucleardonkey View Post

Your stupidest post ever.

No one chooses his parents.


1) Lebron isn't special or unique for having bad ones, or overcoming them.

2) It's particularly unimpressive to overcome bad parents when they armed you with the tools needed to overcome them (all-time genetics).


So why do we have to hear about him doing it?

It's only mentioned due to marketing - Clutch Sports protects the manufactured resume by getting certain narratives out there, and this is one of them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by nucleardonkey View Post

Lebron manufactured every aspect of career


It's statistical fact that Lebron avoids contested jumpers, while his peers take them.. Since he only takes open jumpers, his jumpshooting efficiency is manufactured. He gets away with it by playing with other elite 1st options that can take the contested shots (like his peers do themselves)

Lebron also manufactured his "Finals streak" by forming a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning.. He detailed his plan to stack the deck in a 1-hour special - "not 6, not 7" was the plan.
.
3balI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:24 PM   #15873
3balI
journeyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 387
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mullen View Post

Wait, wat? Antawn Jamison had a 1.3 BPM that year. He wasn’t even the best player on his own team (Arenas had a 4.7 BPM and averaged 28/5/6). LeBron also faced Kidd, Vince Carter, Billups, Rasheed, Ben Wallace, Hamilton…hell, even the old version of Chris Webber was better than Jamison.

* 09' Dwight made the Finals with Rashard Lewis and the AND1 point guard (Skip to My Lou)

* 02' Kidd made the Finals with 1x all-star Kenyon

* 03' Kidd made the Finals with 1x all-star Kenyon

* 01' Iverson made the Finals with Aaron McKie

* 07' Lebron made the Finals with 2x all-star Zydrunas

^^^ A good cast wasn't needed to win the 00's East most years

It's the only conference in history that was won by 1-star teams, aside from one-offs like 94' Hakeem or 11' Dirk.

So it's verifiably the worst conference in history (routinely won by 1-star teams), yet Lebron formed a super-team to ensure Finals runs.. It's the definition of manufacturing a "Finals streak".

Imagine if Dwight had teamed up with Wade/Bosh after winning the East without them in 09' - I'm quite certain that he would have a "Finals streak" just like Lebron did.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mullen View Post

No need to make it one way when it’s the other.


Lebron formed a super-team in a 1-star team conference.

Furthermore, losing the Finals means you lost to the other conference and couldn't win that conference.. So Finals appearances are conference-dependent affairs and only WINNING them matters.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mullen View Post

No need to make it one way when it’s the other.


Lebron is the only guy to team up with another top 5 player (11' Wade or 20' AD), aside from KD doing it (or maybe Moses in 83'), and he's the only guy to team up with multiple 1st options from other teams..

Wade was actually the #2 producer in the 2010 (BPM, PER, VORP, WS/48), so Lebron is the only guy to team up with the best help in the league (#2 producer)...

Not surprisingly, "not 6 not 7" was expected, yet only 2/4 with the goat choke and record loss was the result.
.

Last edited by 3balI; Yesterday at 07:52 PM.
3balI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:34 PM   #15874
Montrealcorp
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Montrealcorp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,793
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tien View Post
In 2011:
Durant was 1st team all-nba
Westbrook was 2nd team all-nba

In 2012:
Durant was 1st team all-nba
Westbrook was 2nd team all-nba
Ibaka was 1st team all defense and 2nd in DPOY voting.
Harden was 6th man of the year.

Arguing with you is having to go back into history and teach you what actually happened in certain years.

It's a waste of time.
Why you add okc 2012 ?
We are talking about how the mavs were awesome and would dominate the 90 because they beat 2011 okc from your POV ....

Which as you showed had not much compare to the “trash” lakers of :
4 all stars :
Shaq a monster.
Kobe all star that year
Eddie Jones all star and all defensive second team
Nick van excel an all star that year
A 61 win team .
I mean seriously, the lakers that year Crush 4-1 the supersonic , a 61 team too ffs .

Now 3 all star plus shaq might seem weak to you but still they got swept by the even “weaker” jazz ...
And the jazz beat through Hakeem ,drexler, Barkley ...
And they crush 4-1 the Spurs with Robinson/Duncan both all star that year !
(the nba champion of the following year fwiw)

Wtf the mavs got over those teams in the 90s? and even 2011 okc ?
Dirk/Jason terry 33 years old (not even been once an all star or anything else) / Kidd at 37 years old ?
being a top team in the 90 is spewing nonsense .
That was just 1 year , disregarding the east .....
The nba was very talented in the 90

Lebron was just terrible with a stack team , get real ...

Last edited by Montrealcorp; Yesterday at 07:43 PM.
Montrealcorp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:53 PM   #15875
Montrealcorp
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Montrealcorp's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,793
Re: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Super AIDS Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tien View Post
Duncan was a rookie in the 98 and won in 1999. Duncan not winning in 1998 was because of Jordan, except Duncan was literally just a rookie, and Duncan didn't even face Jordan.
So what rookie or not ?
What magic did in his rookie year ?

When u speak of player like Jordan , magic, bird, Duncan in their early 20s, they were already great regardless being rookie or not .
Yeah that help not being 18 as a rookie from high school .


When I compare the road and era Duncan had to go through (like mj in the 80) to succeed and winning championship
(not just focusing on the finals )
and than I hear Lebron was less successful because he faced SOME years tougher opponents in the finals and so had a tougher career to succeed....
Im like wtf are you talking about ...
Lebron had it like 5 time easier globally over Duncan and Jordan and on top of that , Lebron had the luxury to have the teammates he wanted it in a trash conference and still failed in spot he shouldn’t have !!!

Last edited by Montrealcorp; Yesterday at 08:04 PM.
Montrealcorp is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive