Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

View Poll Results: GOAT?
labron 140 30.91%
MJ (Michael or Maple) 232 51.21%
Therapist 7 1.55%
George Mikan 2 0.44%
Shaq Attaq 18 3.97%
Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo) 12 2.65%
Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan 18 3.97%
"Roger Murdock" 3 0.66%
Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?) 8 1.77%
Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh) 13 2.87%
Voters: 453. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-01-2013, 01:36 PM   #101
asdfasdf32
True Facts
 
asdfasdf32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Treading lightly
Posts: 13,158
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

LeBron so good he starts more games than he plays. GOAT

Dunno how he pulled off getting taller, but it's LABRON, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
asdfasdf32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 01:36 PM   #102
72off
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
72off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WATZ POPPIIN!!
Posts: 50,145
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

can't tell who is being serious itt
72off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 01:58 PM   #103
StoppedRainingMen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
StoppedRainingMen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: lol
Posts: 44,930
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsjefe View Post
wayyyyyyy too early in lebron's career to warrant a legitimate poll.
sure. but it's not too early to compare what they've done through this point in their careers
StoppedRainingMen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:07 PM   #104
iggymcfly
runs good at HORSE
 
iggymcfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 25,360
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoppedRainingMen View Post
lebron only once played for a team with a sub .500 winning percentage, jordan did it each of his first 3 years

jordan played for a historical top 3-5 NCAAB coach and a historical top 3 NBA coach. lebron played for mike brown and a spraytanned chipmunk

jordan needed one of the 50 greatest players of all time before he made his first nba finals appearance. lebron took the cavs to the finals despite never having anyone who was among the 50 best players in basketball that season

in the year jordan "retired" the bulls still won 55 games (2 fewer than his last season at the time). the cavs retained the same roster minus lebron and went from 61 wins to 19

jordan needed 5 years to advance past the 2nd round of the playoffs. lebron did it in 4
Awesome post SRM.
iggymcfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:12 PM   #105
Victor Cruz
Pooh-Bah
 
Victor Cruz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: IL MAGO
Posts: 4,111
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

The post is mostly accurate though the Cavs got worse other than just losing him the year after he left.
Victor Cruz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:20 PM   #106
Noze
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Noze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: A League
Posts: 24,690
I looked at that cavs roster he got to the finals yesterday for a laugh. They were giving sub 50% ts larry hughes 37 mpg as their "shooting" guard.
Noze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:24 PM   #107
Fallen Hero
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Fallen Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 20,729
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noze View Post
I looked at that cavs roster he got to the finals yesterday for a laugh. They were giving sub 50% ts larry hughes 37 mpg as their "shooting" guard.
http://heylarryhughespleasestoptakin...ybadshots.com/
Fallen Hero is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:37 PM   #108
iggymcfly
runs good at HORSE
 
iggymcfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 25,360
Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nod88 View Post
Okay, so after all of this, I still just don't understand the Bron GOAT talk. I'm gonna assume that it's either tongue-in-cheek, just admiring his current play and projecting, or a level. Maybe it depends on what people mean by GOAT, but at this point, does Bron have a GOAT career? Obviously not. GOAT single season peak? No. GOAT 3-year peak? Doubtful. GOAT 5-year peak? Getting closer.?
LeBron absolutely has the GOAT single season peak:

2008/2009 regular season: 31.7 PER, .591 TS%, .318 WS/48
2008/2009 playoffs: 37.4 PER, .618 TS%, .399 WS/48

That ties Jordan for the modern-era PER record in the regular season, and just crushes the playoff record for anyone that made it out of the first round. All while playing insane D under a huge minute load.

3-year peak I'd still give to Jordan since he was more consistent from 88/89 to 90/91 then Bron's been for any 3-year span. 5-year peak might be too close to call. Probably comes down to what Bron does this next week and a half whether his 09-13 span beats out MJ from 88-92.
iggymcfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:40 PM   #109
Rei Ayanami
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Rei Ayanami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,255
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Hero View Post
So awesome. Started from the first post. Loved this.
Rei Ayanami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:43 PM   #110
poisoneye1986
veteran
 
poisoneye1986's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 2,739
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Lebron has to finish his career off strong with more rings and MVPs. But Ill take his 1st 10 years over Jordans. 1 ring(might be 2 in a few weeks) and 4 MVPs vs 3 rings and 3 MVPs.

Its close.

If you want to go by age its even more impressive in Lebrons favor.

Also, Lebron just entered his prime last year. And his pre prime was already amazing.
poisoneye1986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:47 PM   #111
LeoTrollstoy
banned
 
LeoTrollstoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,122
1<3. 1<<<<<<3 straight
LeoTrollstoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:49 PM   #112
Fallen Hero
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Fallen Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 20,729
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoTrollstoy View Post
1<3. 1<<<<<<3 straight
3 straight >>>>> 4, but 4 >>>>>> 2 straight, also 4 >>>>> 1 and 2 >>>>>> 3 if one of the 2 was a leap year
Fallen Hero is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:53 PM   #113
iggymcfly
runs good at HORSE
 
iggymcfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 25,360
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by poisoneye1986 View Post
Lebron has to finish his career off strong with more rings and MVPs. But Ill take his 1st 10 years over Jordans. 1 ring(might be 2 in a few weeks) and 4 MVPs vs 3 rings and 3 MVPs.

Its close.

If you want to go by age its even more impressive in Lebrons favor.

Also, Lebron just entered his prime last year. And his pre prime was already amazing.
Most of your post was pretty good, but the bolded sentence is ridiculous. LeBron did everything a human being can possibly do for a basketball team in 2009. IMO it was the best NBA season of all-time. It certainly wasn't "pre-prime" for anyone.
iggymcfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:55 PM   #114
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 34,216
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

It's an interesting argument because I would argue Jordan was a better player in some of the title years than during his PER peak years pre-title. Same with Labron, it seems his defense is much better, his outside shooting is better and he can post up. I think he's a better player now than in 2009.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 02:57 PM   #115
Dudd
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 52,461
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf32 View Post
LeBron so good he starts more games than he plays. GOAT

Dunno how he pulled off getting taller, but it's LABRON, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
He's coached by Assani who is noted for his ability to improve height via training
Dudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:09 PM   #116
chuckleslovakian
LYNCH DURRON597
 
chuckleslovakian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saving Sinners
Posts: 32,746
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

MJ 99+++ LaBron only 98
chuckleslovakian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:10 PM   #117
Ray Horton
banned
 
Ray Horton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: how far we done fell
Posts: 26,879
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
It's an interesting argument because I would argue Jordan was a better player in some of the title years than during his PER peak years pre-title. Same with Labron, it seems his defense is much better, his outside shooting is better and he can post up. I think he's a better player now than in 2009.
He's become a better jump shooter in the last few years, especially this year. He's less "stoppable" than he was even last year. His percentages from 16-23ft and Three are at personal highs.

Interestingly, just this year he really lowered his shot attempts form 16-23. Since he's been in Miami the three point attempts are much lower than in Cleveland.

The primary reason for the drop in PER for Jordan was the decreased volume. LeBron's PER this year was right at a career high despite decreases in volume.
Ray Horton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:12 PM   #118
iggymcfly
runs good at HORSE
 
iggymcfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 25,360
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkNasty View Post
It's an interesting argument because I would argue Jordan was a better player in some of the title years than during his PER peak years pre-title. Same with Labron, it seems his defense is much better, his outside shooting is better and he can post up. I think he's a better player now than in 2009.
I actually kinda feel like his defense was better in Cleveland. I mean it's still amazing, and it's really close, but I think as he's getting older, he kinda "saves himself" on D just a tiny bit, and isn't quite the same disruptive force that he was at 24/25. He's definitely a more complete player now, and has some different skills that he didn't have before, but I don't think it quite makes up for the extra little bit of athleticism he had back then, and the stamina he had to attack the rim 40 minutes a game, night after night.

At the same time, he could just be saving himself more because he knows he doesn't need to play at 100% all the time with the team he has. If he's really just been holding back an extra gear this whole season until the 2nd half of Game 5 last night, then he might be better after all. Have to see what happens against San Antonio in the Finals.
iggymcfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:16 PM   #119
powder_8s
temp-banned
 
powder_8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: muck with a capital F
Posts: 3,788
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

If SA wins title this year I would have to argue that TD > LJ. This thread should be who's had a better career so far TD or LJ. Jordan is on another level for his career.
powder_8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:20 PM   #120
Fallen Hero
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Fallen Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 20,729
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by powder_8s View Post
If SA wins title this year I would have to argue that TD > LJ. This thread should be who's had a better career so far TD or LJ. Jordan is on another level for his career.
this thread is not about who had a better career, that's the issue
Fallen Hero is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:22 PM   #121
ClarkNasty
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ClarkNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 10x the man Clarkmeister is
Posts: 34,216
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Yeah, I mean, we can have the "has Labron had a better career than X", but it's a foregone conclusion that the answer is YES for all but one player.
ClarkNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:32 PM   #122
72off
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
72off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WATZ POPPIIN!!
Posts: 50,145
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noze View Post
I looked at that cavs roster he got to the finals yesterday for a laugh.
and the competition? he beat some lolWiz team, a Nets team with Kidd/Vince, then one of the last decent teams from that Pistons run. must have been the year that labron had that sick finish in that game against Detroit? anyway, s'ok, but Jordan lost to a 59-win Bucks team his rookie year, the 86 & 87 Celtics, then the 88-90 Pistons. ok maybe the GOAT player would have willed his teams to wins in some of these series, but that's some pretty tough sledding imo.

i think people are ignoring a lot of contextual stuff here, or are trolling hard.
72off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:38 PM   #123
iggymcfly
runs good at HORSE
 
iggymcfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 25,360
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off View Post
and the competition? he beat some lolWiz team, a Nets team with Kidd/Vince, then one of the last decent teams from that Pistons run. must have been the year that labron had that sick finish in that game against Detroit? anyway, s'ok, but Jordan lost to a 59-win Bucks team his rookie year, the 86 & 87 Celtics, then the 88-90 Pistons. ok maybe the GOAT player would have willed his teams to wins in some of these series, but that's some pretty tough sledding imo.

i think people are ignoring a lot of contextual stuff here, or are trolling hard.
Maybe the GOAT would have got his team a little better seed so they didn't continually have to go against the 1 and 2 seeds in the first round? If you put aside the years where MJ's Bulls had losing records, and look at when they were actually making the playoffs, it's pretty much the same story as LeBron in Cleveland. They each had to deal with the Celtics and the Pistons when the rest of the East was pretty much ****. The difference is LeBron actually beat those teams without help some of the time whereas MJ couldn't do it until he had Phil and Scottie was an all-star.
iggymcfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:41 PM   #124
Noze
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Noze's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: A League
Posts: 24,690
Those pistons teams from mid 2000s were perfectly fine comp. A lot of first round matchups are laughable. Dude went full nuclear on them.
Noze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 03:41 PM   #125
iggymcfly
runs good at HORSE
 
iggymcfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 25,360
Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

BTW, records in playoff series through their age 27 season:

Jordan: 9-6
LeBron: 15-6
iggymcfly is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online