There you go. It looks like you comprehend it is an opinion now rather than a conclusion based on a data-driven model. This is a big step up for you -- it would make absolutely no sense to assume HV based this opinion on a model because he built his model mid 2000's while Jordan played from 1984 to 1998 (sans Wizard years). In fact, it would be incredibly stupid to assume that with no evidence!

And I'm going to go ahead and take the W here instead of this L you speak of, since I've proven you wrong yet again. And my opinion plus like 85% of other people's opinion plus the vast majority of people who know anything about basketball including former NBA players > you and HV's non-data driven opinion. Especially since my opinion is actually based on the most commonly used publicly available stats in which Jordan is ahead over reasonable peak years. Plus TWICE as much team success with 6 rings.

Tick one off in the ol' L column for Twigs yet again. More wanting than LeBron vs. Mavs 2011.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

It is a sort of appealing to authority, however, HV has a proven history of being able to evaluate players properly, and therefore, it is justified to give greater validity to his opinions on players. It's a fine application of Bayesian logic.

I highly doubt that HV acquired all the footage from every single Jordan game, let alone analyzed them all.

None of this matters anyway. The data provided by LaWant's rap song + space jam announcement + cowardly fleeing to LA outweighs anything HV can bring.

If you want to use HV's analysis to argue whether or not LaDesperate is top 5 or not, that's fine though. MJ is objectively and absolutely GOAT by any reasonable confidence interval.

No one being the perfect evaluator doesn't make all evaluators equal

Haven't heard this one before. How is going to LA cowardly?

I assume not sticking it out with the roster abortion that he helped build in Cleveland.

I thought the narrative was that he was a coward for staying in the East his whole career, just so he could rack up Finals appearances. Is there anywhere he could have gone/stayed that wouldn't have been called cowardly by some?

-Office hires a new employee, Dave

-Dave demands that the entire work flow be catered to his whim

-Owners are forced to fire workers and hire people with limited skillsets

-Managers are constantly overruled, budget is way over, other employees are overworked, and jobs aren't getting done

-When everything starts going to ****, Dave bails for another up-and-coming company, leaving the other company in shambles due to his selfishness

-This is the 3rd time Dave has done this exact same thing

LaWants: Why would you guys criticize Dave? He's just doing what's right for him.

If LeBron had stayed in Cleveland the first time I think people wouldn't have complained.

If LeBron had of stayed in Miami people would hold the decision against him, but by the end of his career I think it wouldn't have been as bad. Particularly if he had won a chip without Wade/Bosh.

You're forgetting the part where Dave does all the work and makes them a Fortune 500 company.

L that keeps on giving.

Keep MJ nice and tight bro.

You think Cleveland are in a better spot now than when LeBron got there?

Lmao this soap opera **** is so dumb. Like really? So much emotion driven narrative BS when it comes to LeBron.

lol god damn

jfc

Jordan didn’t leave the bulls in a great spot....most greats don’t leave their team is awesome condition especially when their team is built around their skills.

I heard Albert Einstein built a model using fundamental physics proving LeBron > MJ. It's in his twitters I swear. It contradicts all publicly available stats and ring count, but it's in there if you just googles. Just take my word for it. Score another one in the W column for Twigs.

Twigs sleeps soundly at night with his LeBron underroos and blanky yet again. No one can hurt u in the cradle of LEBron's love.

This is very true.

Well except for the time he did. In 1993.

But forgetting that instance where you were 100% wrong, I don't think people care if LeBron had stayed somewhere for 10+ years (which is MJ leaving in 1998) and had won 6 championships I don't think people would care.

It's more that he came to what was at the time a young team, and managed to turn them old in only 4 years.

I'm not even making this argument guys. I was explaining someone else's post. And then queried when someone said the guy turned them into a Fortune 500 company, and I didn't think that was a fair comparison.

Except when public data doesn’t. Only when you use and twist certain stats like you. Since you lump all your eggs in the MJ weighted narratives stuff like 6-0. Oh and the ol, can’t use X stat because it doesn’t suit Jordan but use it when it does Matt R special.

Keep chugging the L train.

i meant in 1998 when they blew **** up. i thought i've been told by your side that 1993 they were crap because obviously losing in the 2nd round in the playoffs is pathetic. huge difference between B2B2B champions and 2nd round playoff exit. i personally don't think the drop was that great but that's an argument for another day.

You realize the point of young vs old is title contention window right? He won them s freaking title. Oh and raised the team value in hundreds of millions of dollars, other than that, sure they were better off before

What side?

We were just having a discussion.

I've had many posts itt pro LeBron, so stop saying sides.

Anyway. There is a big difference between B2B2B champs and being knocked out in the second round of the playoffs by the team that got beaten in the finals. But that doesn't mean they weren't still a good team in a good position for the future.

Did you read my post? I literally said I don't think what the Cavs did was wrong.

Still doesn't mean they didn't sell their soul to try and win. Which was largely dictated by LeBron only signing for 1 or 2 seasons at a time. How can you plan if you don't know if he's going to stay?

The teams value really didn't increase any more than other teams fwiw. So, I'm not sure if he really helped at all there (at a team level).

He did help them spend lots of money though.

From 2013 to 2018

Cavs - 515 to 1325M
Washington - 485M to 1350M
Kings - 550 to 1375M
Toronto - 520 to 1400M