Can you guys please stop responding to him. It’s really not that hard.

I think we’ve been over this time and time again, lebron and mj had sliced through the east conference at basically the same rate over their runs of greatness so the ec sucked when MJ was running through it too. You can keep thinking the ec was so good but honestly it wasn’t or maybe in both cases, each player led just superior teams to the conference in just about every way.

I realize why I hate you so much. You write like trump talks.

Again, let’s say in some weird world Jordan went to 16 finals instead of 6 and went 6-10, do you looks down on him ? Or is that more impressive? I agree I wish lebron never lost in the finals, I wish he led better teams to the finals or didn’t have to go against some of the teams he’s gone again. The last point, his opponents have clearly been better teams in many cases yet in all but one, he’s still be either his teams best player or the best player between both teams even in losses.

Also grant and Phil are not pushovers that can just be ignored. Phil is arguably the second best coach of his era and grant while not an all star was a all d player for a few years in Chicago. Chicago had a great team in both dynasties which might not had 4 hofers in their prime but played well from 1-8 with a pretty sick system in the triangle.

which bulls years ?

Kobe's like one of those playground legends we all know. Almost no one can beat him one on one, but in a team game he needed a lot of help and his consistent errors brought the team down. Other players overrate a guy that they know can kill them consistently in 1-1. That's why they need coaches.

Even if he played for San Antonio or Houston or GSW?

The thing is that you use IF...
Are we talking about who should be goat with "if's" and of "conjucture of would have" or are we talking about real life, events and what really happend and not what should of happen ?.

Jordan is the Goat because he actually did incredible thing, case close.
Facts !

If you want to go talk about whos got more talent, and what should of happened,etc.
Fine by me...
But factually, Jordan accomplishments and success far exceed Lebron !
Thats real life !

Thats what bugs me about the Lebron fan, its all about should of, excuses of , but his got more of this or that, or that his a better person,etc..
W.E...
Its not important, whats important is what actually really happened!
If not why the hell even run the play offs and give the nba title to the team and player that should have it.

But we dont because someone might choke, play badly under pressure, getting unlucky on his last shot, health issues, etc...

And the goat usually overcome all that and MJ did better than anyone, leading every and winning everywhere and being the best player!
Lebron did not for multiple reason, sometimes because of his, sometimes bevcause of others , sometimes because of bad luck, etc.

I mean look at freakn shaq, why shouldnt be the goat ?
I could use those excuses :
- well its because he could of being more serious with his career and the lebron fan would answer would be:" well he did not , and because of that, he had lower stats."
- he could of won 7 rings if he would passing the torch to Kobe eventually and stay on the same team like magic and kareem did but he did not the Jordan fans would say and he only got 4 rings!
- etc...

But it did not happen !

And for the bolded part, so as MJ but he won everything while Lebron did not, so why would you reward Lebron?

Listen you are speaking like its not Lebron fault if he had to face better team than MJ in the finals. Yeah we all know that.
But did Lebron faced in all his final, a goat team ? Hell no !
So what happened in the years he did not face a goat team in the finals ?
He won some , he lost some and the other years he did not even reach the finals, well i am sorry for him but he lost his chances to win NBA title while super team like the warriors did not exist .

But you are speaking like Jordan never had to face the same challenge as Lebron, while MJ did !
During his career MJ had to face Goat teams as well like the celtics and the pistons and guess what , he lost as well vs them , like Lebron, and even worst than Lebron , swept !
But guess what , like Lebron times, super team come and goes and the road clears it self and what than happened , MJ totally dominated the league and won everything , being the best player everywhere.

Lebron didnt done it, what can i tell you...
Just the fact he lost twice vs non goat teams is already bad while MJ never have lost vs worst team.
And that is not even counting the rest...

Both MJ and Lebron dominate the league as the best player but MJ won it all while Lebron did not, simple.
Jordan did not crack

Again , if's...
And when he joins one of those 3 teams, the other 2 would of been different who knows how ...
Maybe a better team than the warriors would of emerge, maybe Lebron would of get hurts,etc. who knows?

Like i said, if you want a wishful goat and what should of happen,etc. be my guess and take Lebron.

Me its Jordan because i am in the real world and factually MJ did better.

I will tell you something that might amaze you but even if you say all of this is right, it doesnt change a thing.
Those guys wants to win first and nvm the stats and in their mind they know with Kobe their chances are higher because he never quit and his relentless.
And would fight both end of the court like a madman , like MJ
With that mindset, sometimes it might be the difference between having a ring or not and Kobe got 5.
People say well he had shaq and all.
So what he actually had to freakin work for it anyway and not fail right ?
And guess what, him and shaq with malone, gary payton and all the others in 2004, did fail!

Did they start searching excuses for goat talk ?
No they fail where they shouldnt, next.

Thats MR capone, like he said earlier, killer instinct not in the stats either but it got huge value when you want to win, even has a team!

Thanks for making my point for me.

Thats 1 time
Did he leaves miami after trying to redo the same ***** with the upcoming Kyrie in cleveland ?
You got that?

And now guess what, he will go again in another place and redo it all over again!
4 times!

If Lebron his that good and make his teammates better , why does he always have to leaves ?
Arent his teammates getting better in practice with him?
I have no idea whats going on but its not normal he cant built a team dynasty somewhere ( when supposedely he has some saying on whom he wants to team up with..) and no ones want to come play with him.
Heck even Kyrie left...

You know why Lebron keep doing it?
Lebron knows deep down he need more rings...

ps: the rodman dilema.
Jordan has no credit for beating an "old utah team" but rodman had the same age as them and now his almost godlike at 35...

Fine if you want to believe he would of make the same number of finals as in the east.
Well he should of went than but its easier when your in the east...and he lost!
His choice, so his consequences...
And btw he did lose when he had the better team right ?
So does it make a certainty he would of won it all with a better team in the west?
Get my drift?
Thats why Lebron really needs accomplishments and not what if's.

Do you think this dude didn't include MJ in his tweet because MJ had 38 career 40+ point playoff games?

Think it’s more of the effect that his scores more this playoffs than some of the greats have in their entire career. Not making it about MJ vs LeBron.

Bulls year w/o Jordan:
Pippen
Horace Grant
B.J. Armstrong
Peter Myers
Steve Kerr
Toni Kukoc
Luc Longley
etc.

Heat at their peak, minus Lebon:
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Mario Chalmers
Udonis Haslem
Shane Battier
Norris Cole
Mike Miller
etc.

Hate to break it to you man, but if you think that Bulls squad would destroy that Heat squad, you are admitting basketball talent in 1993 was substantially better than it was in 2012.

Which very well may be true as there were 27 teams in 1993 and 30 in 2012, so the talent was ~11% more diluted in 2012. i.e. Jordan had to compile his superior stats in a league where talent was more concentrated across all teams on average. Oh and the 6 championships thing.

Agree. That was probably the point of the original tweet. And that 7 is obviously impressive.

Unfortunately a LaSlappy brought that into the MJ/Lebon thread as an argument. But perhaps he didn't know MJ had 38 (THIRTYEIGHT) career 40+ point games in the playoffs. Oh and he averaged 41 ppg in the finals vs. the Suns. Oops.

If only they gave rings for rebounds blocks and steals. Maybe Adam Silver will change the rules and the objective of the game will change from "scoring more points than the other team in 4 out of 7 games" to "putting up a lot stats"

Then he can truly be the GOAT. Tho Westbrook may find a way to beat him then.

flawless analysis here

Yes I divided. 3/27 which is approx 11.11111111111% (repeated). One can use a calculator that comes with windows 10 (I assume in latest version).

What this means is there were about 11% more roster spots in the nba in 2012 than 1993. So 11% more players of basketball made an nba roster than they would have otherwise. Obv the best players already made a team, so if u increase number of roster spots those spots go to players of basketball that otherwise would be working at Wendy’s. This brings average ability down across entire league.

Of course your beef is actually with borg not me, since borg said the 93 bulls would dominate the 12 heat wo lEbon. Meaning the talent in 93 musta been far better because Pete Myers and Lucas Longley were actually studs

This thread is very divisive but I think Matt R.'s post has two very good points that we can all agree on:

1) The talent pool for basketball players hasn't changed at all in 25 years, particularly internationally.

2) Anyone with the work ethic and drive to make it to the NBA would obviously choose a career in fast food as their back-up plan.

Some say you can even hear the LeSlappin’ across international boundaries to this day.

Pete Myers Luc Longley > Dwyane Wade Chris Bosh to complete the proof. QED

This is a great post and really puts things in context.

This sentence kind of sums up why you have such a low level understanding of basketball. Stupid basketball fans love scoring and don't put enough importance on everything else. Stupid basketball fans are almost always Jordan is the indisputable GOAT people.

Also, probably has a very strong correlation with being a conservative. They don't realize their insane luck to be born in the United States. Instead, they think what they have created was 100% due to their talent, their drive & their will. Instead of realizing they were surrounded with people who helped them succeed. They were randomly born in a country that gave them tons of opportunities that so many people would never have.

It's why they don't factor in Jordan's supporting cast or the teams in the finals he had to go up against vs. who Lebron played with and who he had to play in the finals.

The biggest warrior I ever saw in the NBA was Iverson and he never won jack. Gary Payton is another example. Even some guy like Nique was a tremendous player who never got a to a finals. What did those three have in common?

Jordan and Kobe won in spite of their mindsets, because of the teams around them.

You mean to guys like Bill Russell, Tim Duncan, Dennis Rodman, Will Perdue, Robert Parrish, Robery Horry, and John Salley?

Why are you completely making things up that I never claimed? You said he wouldn't have made the finals if he played in the west. I asked if this were true regardless of which team he played on. You posted a few thousand words that seem to be some unrelated rant, but frankly I didn't read past the first few hundred words because it was 6am and I fell back asleep before I could finish.