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View Poll Results: GOAT?
labron 140 30.91%
MJ (Michael or Maple) 232 51.21%
Therapist 7 1.55%
George Mikan 2 0.44%
Shaq Attaq 18 3.97%
Wilt the Stilt (100 pts yo) 12 2.65%
Timmy "Big Fundamentals" Duncan 18 3.97%
"Roger Murdock" 3 0.66%
Enchanted AIDS Wang (er, HIV+?) 8 1.77%
Larry Legend (+ HM to Bill Russell's laugh) 13 2.87%
Voters: 453. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-01-2013, 01:39 AM   #51
horrorshow83
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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Originally Posted by Dyenimator View Post
triangle > heat offense >>> pg style

lebron has never had a coach like phil. if he ever does, watch out, especially late in his career. the post up talent and vision are there.
He has never had a great coach, but LeBron isn't a triangle player.

Not that LeBron would be bad in it, but an Adelman type would maximize him more, offensively.

Phil's D scouting was GOAT and he could scheme for any team at any time and did great things with great defensive players, so maybe LeBron's D would shine more in a scheme revolving around him by Phil.

That said, Spoelstra's a strong scout. Obv not Phil, but not a bum. That alone has him a pretty damn good coach.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:47 AM   #52
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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.
.

.
not sure if anyone realizes, but virtually every single play where mj has it on the perimeter and the defender is touching him is a foul in today's game.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:55 AM   #53
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

i would advise posters who want to have a better understanding of the game to go play two games of 1-on-1 with their buddy.

the first game, no hand-checking, no forearms, no contact whatsoever with the offensive player when they are outside the paint.

the 2nd game, hand-checking, forearms, nudges and pushes on the way to the hoop.

night and day..

let alone all the tricks and extra stuff guys could get away on top of the what was allowed. the league was changed to make it easier to penetrate.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:01 AM   #54
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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not sure if anyone realizes, but virtually every single play where mj has it on the perimeter and the defender is touching him is a foul in today's game.
there was a recent quote, think it was from byron russell (mj hit the game winner over him in the finals) and he said something along the lines of "im just glad we were allowed to put our hands on him. you cant do that now, but mj would easily score 60 today."

ill look for the quote tomorrow just to follow up.

/hops out of the mj/lebron debate

edit: found a realgm thread about the quote, through google, but the video in the thread doesnt work...

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...?f=6&t=1126834

Last edited by Scherer716; 06-01-2013 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:20 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by trainwreckog View Post
i would advise posters who want to have a better understanding of the game to go play two games of 1-on-1 with their buddy.

the first game, no hand-checking, no forearms, no contact whatsoever with the offensive player when they are outside the paint.

the 2nd game, hand-checking, forearms, nudges and pushes on the way to the hoop.

night and day..

let alone all the tricks and extra stuff guys could get away on top of the what was allowed. the league was changed to make it easier to penetrate.
One could argue all that means is Bron would be an even bigger beast on the defensive end than he is now, and he's a lot stronger than Jordan so the contact would likely affect him less comparatively.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:22 AM   #56
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

im a huge fan of both guys but the fact that this is already a legit conversation and the more desperate tone from the Jordan camp makes it seem like lebron is gonna overtake him at some point.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:22 AM   #57
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

Threads involving Lebron suck.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:27 AM   #58
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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One could argue all that means is Bron would be an even bigger beast on the defensive end than he is now, and he's a lot stronger than Jordan so the contact would likely affect him less comparatively.
the point is not what lebron would do. we know what lebron would do with no hand-checking.

the question is how much better would mj have performed, if in that seattle sonics 1996 Finals vid, none of the defenders could literally lay a finger on him on the perimeter?
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:34 AM   #59
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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Originally Posted by trainwreckog View Post
not sure if anyone realizes, but virtually every single play where mj has it on the perimeter and the defender is touching him is a foul in today's game.
that trainwreck can sure inspect a good youtube video
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:08 AM   #60
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

Jordan when illegal defense was called: 29.1 PER, 58 TS%, 120 ORTG, .274 WS/48

Jordan when illegal defense was abolished: 19.9 PER, 48 TS%, 100 ORTG, .089 WS/48

Advantage: BRON
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:12 AM   #61
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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another bogus argument the pro-bron crowd likes to use - "his teammates suck. they are banged up and aren't as good as mj's were."

once again, i read this (or something to that effect) and was like, "wait a minute. that's not true. mj's teammates played way better with him than lebron's have ever played with lebron. steve kerr had a 9.0 ws with mj. mj is still better."
this is an incredible post, maybe you're best ever.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:41 AM   #62
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

Okay, so after all of this, I still just don't understand the Bron GOAT talk. I'm gonna assume that it's either tongue-in-cheek, just admiring his current play and projecting, or a level. Maybe it depends on what people mean by GOAT, but at this point, does Bron have a GOAT career? Obviously not. GOAT single season peak? No. GOAT 3-year peak? Doubtful. GOAT 5-year peak? Getting closer.

So I presume that everyone supporting this is just projecting and having fun with saying GOAT now, even though he clearly is not. It'll be pretty tough for him to ever have the GOAT career though. If he keeps performing at this level or close to it, you could argue GOAT 5-10 year peak, but you're starting to cherry pick your time frame, and that's pretty wanting.

So, to expand on the all LeBron all le time discussion, how do this year's Heat compare against the early 2000's Lakers and Spurs?
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:04 AM   #63
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

same reason why some random dude thats a toddler right now will be called the GOAT over labron.
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:18 AM   #64
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Lebron is an awesome basketball player, no doubt about it. One of the best to ever play, but his chokes with cleveland and losing to the mavs have already eliminated him from GOAT talks.
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:22 AM   #65
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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Lebron is an awesome basketball player, no doubt about it. One of the best to ever play, but his chokes with cleveland and losing to the mavs have already eliminated him from GOAT talks.
this is retarded. let's say theoretically, lebron won the next 15 MVPs and 15 titles, he couldn't pass MJ? LOL. No b/c 19 MVPs and 16 titles (16/18) isn't better than 6/6 with 5 MVPs.

mj can be passed b/c he lost a bunch before the finals. he also retired 2 times and missed years in his prime. while it will be hard to pass mj, just b/c bron lost in the finals e/c earlier than that doesn't make him all less likely to become the GOAT.
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:23 AM   #66
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

nah the toddler will supplant WIGGZ not labron, and that toddler is lebron jr. lolkobe for not fathering a son, if that's not a sign of huge latent wil idk wat is
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:33 AM   #67
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

Wiggins is a loser so I guess it's correct to put him in the same category as Labron.
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:50 AM   #68
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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Wiggins is a loser so I guess it's correct to put him in the same category as Labron.



Lol Seriously who's better than Rat???
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Old 06-01-2013, 09:59 AM   #69
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this is retarded. let's say theoretically, lebron won the next 15 MVPs and 15 titles, he couldn't pass MJ? LOL. No b/c 19 MVPs and 16 titles (16/18) isn't better than 6/6 with 5 MVPs.

mj can be passed b/c he lost a bunch before the finals. he also retired 2 times and missed years in his prime. while it will be hard to pass mj, just b/c bron lost in the finals e/c earlier than that doesn't make him all less likely to become the GOAT.
MJ did it with one team. Never lost in the finals. Most clutch shooter/ player of all time, no question. Lebron had to form this dream team of sorts to even be a contender.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:06 AM   #70
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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MJ did it with one team. Never lost in the finals. Most clutch shooter/ player of all time, no question. Lebron had to form this dream team of sorts to even be a contender.
He didn't have a contender in Cleveland? The fact is Cleveland is a **** organization in a **** city where no studs would go to. They had a Dukie as their GM and repeatedly made huge mistakes like Hughes, Shaq, Ben Wallace, etc. when they were all past their prime.

Basically, what happened is MJ was a ton more fortunate when it came to luck with his organization. While the Bulls organization wasn't great before MJ got there by any means, it was at least in a major market with a smart GM who obviously got Grant and Pippen early and then Rodman and others later. Did Lebron ever get that? And for that, he is being penalized. Imagine if Lebron won a title with Mo Williams or AV as his 2nd best player....that would almost be matched. Fact was those teams weren't that great other than Bron. Bron couldn't get another stud player to come to Cleveland, so he went to a team with other studs. With that being said, Bron is still shouldering almost similar amounts of the work load that he did in Cleveland in Miami. Are Bosh/Wade really a dream team? Maybe a few years ago, but Wade is now hurt and not that elite. Bosh has hardly been what he was in Toronto.

I guess Bron could have waited for Cleveland to build a team well but that would have been tough when he consistently wins a ton of games. Or he could have left. Idiots like Magic, MJ etc. said that they wouldn't leave to team with other studs--well it's pretty easy not to when you first of all end up with the Lakers, for Magic, with a top 2 organization with a HOF center and then MJ who did wait but eventually his organization hit home run after home run with their draft, trades and FA.

MJ also played for the Wizards or did we erase that from our memories as well?
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:15 AM   #71
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

Labron needs to hero ball more to be the GOAT. Yes, this is strictly for entertainment purposes. Lol waids stealing his shots.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #72
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Brow is better than both
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:12 AM   #73
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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Lol Seriously who's better than Rat???
Picking Kansas over Kentucky is a sure sign of a loser.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:26 AM   #74
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Re: NBA Playoffs Eastern Conference Finals: #1 Miami Heat vs. #3 Indiana Pacers

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MJ did it with one team.
Washington Wizards.

You might need to re-write and re-shift your goalpost again.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:40 PM   #75
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Re: NBA: MJ vs. Labron GOAT Discussion Containment Thread

For LJ to ever be considered the GOAT he has to crush MJ's career. You can not become the GOAT because you = or are close to the GOAT. The GOAT has to set a new standard that blows away the competition. There should be no argument who the GOAT is. When MJ retired there was no argument who the GOAT was. 15 years later some people that are not old enough to remember MJ are saying LJ might be the GOAT.

MJ set a new standard. LJ is trying to match MJ's standard. By no means has LJ surpassed MJ. Even if LJ equals Jordan the tie goes to the champ because LJ knows what he has to do to be as dominant as Jordan. LJ has to set a new standard that MJ can not compete with to be the GOAT (he might do it, but until then there is no LJ is GOAT). LJ is a great BB player. Best of his generation. He has a long way to go to be considered the GOAT.

One reason it will be very difficult to ever call LJ the GOAT is he was not dominant enough to build a championship team around him in Cleveland. When he left CLeveland to go to Miami. He did so because he wanted to win. Miami and Wade had already won without LJ. LJ did not have the confidence that he would win it all with the team built around him in Cleveland. MJ was drafted by a Bulls team that had sucked for a long time. The team was built around him. MJ did not leave the Bulls and join the Lakers, Rockets or Knicks when he could not beat the Pistons.

Last edited by powder_8s; 06-01-2013 at 12:54 PM.
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