If the exam is finals, bron needs a minor miracle to hit 50%. Jordan we all know aced everyone he faced. Bron got outplayed by deshawn Stevenson

It's ironic that LeBron Stans talk down Jordan when their Messiah took the man's number and pregame chalk clap on some sports Single White Female stalking ****. Dickriders dickriding a dickrider, pretty funny.

Idk, the 96 supersonics team was awesome, and so was those Jazz teams.

Before LeBron, Kareem was one of the main guys MJ was up against for GOAT. Most people have him Top 5, Top 10 at worst.

Warriors definitely. Spurs v Utah is pretty close though.

its really quite simple. jordan played with immensely better teammates. he also did not face near the competition that lebron has faced.

the big 3 plus rondo celts. the spurs were amazing. and ofc the 73 win warriors.

jordan did not face a single team that was nearly as good as those 6 teams (I am not including the celts from 2010.)

and as for teammates, lebron has never played with anyone nearly as good as pippen, nor who fit as well alongside. he would need to play with a wing whose style fit perfectly. I would guess someone like ray allen with elite defense would be the prototype.

A bit of lack of respect for the 96/97/98 Jazz.

Malone was the legit MVP in a league were Jordan was playing, Stockton was the 2nd best "lieutenant" ITL behind Pippen, coaching was great and the supporting cast was very +

Obviously this team wouldn't exist today in NBA, but they'd be the 2nd best team behind Warriors, close with the Spurs team that titled

Is he better than Nash?

spurs would role those teams. those spurs are very underrated. they played beautiful bball due to goat coaching and - for lack of better terminology - team chemistry. they had been playing together for many years and were experienced vets but they still had enough athleticism. they knew how to play with each other and were tactically amazing.

it was quite a change from the rugged, methodical spurs from earlier days. they passed brilliantly to find open 3s and dominated transition going both ways.

08 celts take those jazz too. that celts team is getting slept on.

I think you are undervaluing what he's got in Cleveland at the moment, as well as what he had in Miami.

I mean, as mentioned in this thread, 47 win Heat team + Bosh isn't that far from the Bulls team without MJ (55 wins in one season and on track to win about 43 games the next season before he came back).

That's a great question. I'm not sure. I'm probably picking Stockton in an all time draft, but you can't knock Nash for running a better offense.

Spurs play great regular season ball. Their post season work isn't as great (in the time period we are talking about).

The 47 win team had the following top 10 players by minutes:

Wade
Beasley (really...)
Jermaine
Haslem
Q
Alston
Chalmers
Arroyo
Wright
Anthony

The 55 win team had the following top 10 players in minutes

Lebron
Wade
Bosh
Chalmers
Jones
Anthony
Z
Arroyo
House
Miller

So definitely not the same team as the year before and a lot of new guys/turnover. Shocked the 47 win team won that many games; jfc they were not loaded at all.

You're right. They did send some players (errrr contracts) to Cleveland to get LeBron. I still think the team (without LeBron, replaced with an average SF) is still comfortably a playoff team.

That 47 win team doesn't look great on paper. It's almost like Wade was a really good player

I take nash. top 5 all time offensive player. 2nd best shooter of all time behind curry. lol defense.

cleveland is garbage without lebron. ppl think love and irving are these great players but they really arent. they are solid. they are not all time greats and likely dont hall of fame. if they do, it is largely bc of lebron. pippen and rodman hall of fame regardless.

heres the thing, this cavs team does not usually make the playoffs without lebron. I mean, they may sneak in with 35 wins some years but they arent sniffing 40 wins.

wat? they made consecutive finals and won once. they smashed the heat despite lebron going for 29 a game with insane efficiency and usage. lebrons bulk stats werent incredible 29/8/4 just bc the games were usually out of hand by midway through the 3rd qtr.

spurs just stifled the rest of the heat. offensively, they were excellent.

The Jazz were worse in a worse league against bad competition. This is what Stockton and Malone did in their 9 seasons together in their prime as franchise players before they made the finals against the Bulls (most recent season first):

Lost W. Conf. Finals
Lost W. Conf. 1st Rnd.
Lost W. Conf. Finals
Lost W. Conf. 1st Rnd.
Lost W. Conf. Finals
Lost W. Conf. Semis
Lost W. Conf. 1st Rnd.
Lost W. Conf. 1st Rnd.
Lost W. Conf. Semis

This is basically the Clippers with better luck - the Clippers may still get there as Chris Paul and Blake Griffin are considerably younger than Stockton/Malone when they made the finals for the first time.

Pipp was obviously great, but passed that -- the bulls were mostly just solid role players imo. Grant was solid (1 all-star I believe), and old Rodman was good. Not sure either guy was considered a top 25 player in the league while playing with the Bulls, though.

Wade, Bosh, Love were all top 5 PER players (without LeBron) and Kyrie is one of the best scorers ITL. All were/are easily top 15 players ITL.

Mix in Korver, Ray Allen, Battier, Thompson etc. -- those guys were every bit as good as BJ Armstrong, Kerr, Luke Longley, etc.

No issues with Pippen, but the majority of Rodman's Hall of Fame stuff was pre Bulls.



They make the playoffs. Easy. I'm so confused by why people don't think they do. Not better than a Bulls team that has one good player? Ditto Indiana?

I'll give them that they played 3 sensational games in a row to close out Miami in the year they won it. Three of the most complete games you'll ever see played. Outside that, they have tended to be sensational in the regular season and just okay in the playoffs in the last 8 years.

Comparing them to the Jazz.

Malone 97/98 > Duncan 13/14
Stockton 97/98 > Parker 13/14
SA remainder of roster > Utah remainder of roster

I think it's close.

I haven't singled out KL as at that stage (21 years old), he was still growing into the player we know him to be.

Did you forget kukoc purposefully?

Wade, bosh, love, Kyrie aren't stud role players though and the last 3 had a lot of success with bad teams and likely garbage bulk stats. They aren't ideal 2nd and 3rd bananas.

Here are the Spurs record for playoffs for the last 9 seasons

Lost 1st Round - 3 times
Lost Semis - 2 times
Lost CF - 2 times
Made Finals - 2 times

Here's Utah's record for the 9 seasons around their two Finals appearance (5 seasons before, 2 after, much like the Spurs)

Lost 1st Round - 2 times
Lost Semis - 2 time
Lost CF - 3 times
Made Finals - 2 times

Playoff record is pretty similar.

Utah would be seen a lot better (inc Malone/Stockton), if they could have stolen a ship against the Bulls.

Wade was a stud.

Wade is awesome. Wade isn't the best second banana with Lebron as the top guy. Both guys love the ball in their hands and prefer going into the paint. Ideally for Lebron as someone else mentioned would probably be a stud 2 guard who can shoot like ray Allen especially from 3 and play sick d. I'm not sure if Shaq would be ideal as a 5 player with Lebron but the talent would be overwhelming. Kareem or Duncan are probably better foils for bron at the 5.

Kyrie just had a night where he poured in 40+ to beat a team single handedly he's done this in the finals too, but he sucks otherwise

I didn't say kyrie sucks. I think he's a better match for bron than wade is because he can shoot so well; his d isn't amazing. Both wade and kyrie have the ability to take over games when they have to offensively; I'm not sure if pippen really could do that but he played sick d, could shoot and could score at a pretty good clip.

kyries is a great player. an all star. but he is not a top 50 all time player and sure fire hall of famer. hes not near pippen.

wade was on pippens level in his prime, but he had declined by the time lebron joined. and in his final 2 years wade was certainly not hall of fame level and likely not even all star level. worse, he did not really fit well with lebron.