In one post you managed to insult me 8 times. I can understand this is an emotional time for you.

I can help you achieve more in life. The first step to enlightenment is to admit LeBron is greater than Jordan. You will get there.

Mental meltdown.

I didn’t realize Tien was fat. Everything he has posted to date is invalid.

Tien please notify us when your body fat % is at an acceptable level and then you may return to posting in this thread.

Mods please delete all of his posts up until this point as they are fraudulent!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dunno where he got the fat / obese part.

When I was 18, I was 5'11 135lbs which was super skinny. Then I hit the gym hard at 20 and put on 40-45lbs and have kept that until today.

5'11 180 lbs is fat / obese apparently.

2020 Finals broke him mentally. A lot of twoplustwo posters were normal pre 2013. 3ball and Leo managed to stay unbanned until that incident. Now they have made about 25 twoplustwo accounts between the two of them.

Leo is LeoTrollstoy? I don't remember much other than iirc he was a fairly uncreative troll. Don't recall much engagement back then, and the only reason for the recent dustup is due to a bunch of reported posts wherein he was being a jackass.

But in his world I am the problem, thus he should be allowed to be an uncreative jackass unchecked. Perhaps one day he will receive reparations for the damage I have inflicted upon his kind, and uncreative jackasses everywhere will get their payback while continuing to lack self-awareness or basic social skills. Guess we will find out.

Leo - until next time, keyboard commando.

Maybe 3ball is actually MJ?
https://thesportsrush.com/nba-news-s...eam-obsession/

I actually have no (direct) evidence Tien is fat. However, I do know people that routinely "brag" about how much sports they watch, and it is 100% universally true, among the ones I know at least, that they have literally zero athleticism and have never played sports beyond junior high. I am just extrapolating based on prior experience, and poking a little fun at TienTien b/c he is a knob and can't argue his way out of a potato sack.

Anyway, conversely, would you agree that Tien's argument that he "watches basketball" and that (I guess) I do not, which of course isn't true anyway, does not invalidate the pro-MJ side arguments? Just curious where you stand on that lol.

Every star had a teammate match or outscore them for a playoff run...

Kareem and Worthy routinely outscored Magic.... Lebron was outscored by 11' Wade and 20' AD, while 16' Kyrie matched him..... Duncan had Parker... Kobe had Shaq and vice versa..86' and 88' McHale matched or outscored Bird.

So everyone was a "pippen" because they needed a "jordan" (someone to outscore them).. Jordan is the only guy just needed a pippen - he invented that... No teammate was ever anywhere near him and he averaged 10-30 more than his sidekick for every series... the only 1-man show in history..

And equal-scoring partners attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced 1-man team defensive coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his goat PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP seasons).


Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s


Finally, Lebron was a 1-trick pony before the "decision", with only 1 Finals run like Iverson, Dwight, and Kidd... Then Wade, AD, and Kyrie elevated him to champion - so this idea that lebron brings guys titles and therefore "makes guys better" is false - teaming up doesn't equal "making guys better" - it's just stacking the deck and talent-based winning.... virtually none of his 2nd or 3rd options improved statistically alongside him because his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team--hopping, talent-based winning)..

otoh, Jordan's off-ball skillset allowed Pippen/Grant/BJ to grow from single-digit rookies to korver all-stars by 94', and three-peat brand.. the teammate improvement, goat brand development (triangle offense dominated for 20 years and multiple generations), and #1 team offenses with minimal offensive help lend further integrity to Jordan's goat stats/production rate
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Lol at only one man show in history

only 53% of today's league makes the playoffs (top half of teams).. otoh, 70% of teams made the playoffs in the 80's (many bottom half teams).

Today's bigger league and lower proportion of entrants kept lebron's 30-40 win teams out of the 8 seed in 04/05/19, while Jordan's 30-40 win casts were forced into the 8 vs 1 matchup by a smaller league.. so lebron only faced playoff opponents with developed high seeds, not lottery 8 seeds like Jordan.. Yet lebron still went 3-16 with 2 seeds in 07', 11', 14, and 17', so that's worse than Jordan's 1-9 with 8 seeds... And if you want to say "well it's better to make the Finals", then let's talk Finals, aka 6/6

Ultimately, it's funny that Jordan is considered bad for getting swept with 8 seeds while averaging 44, but it's okay for lebron to get swept with a 2 seed while wetting the bed with 22 ppg... Or go 3-16 with 2 seeds including the goat choke.. lol bron-stans

Btw, teams from the 80's had the 8 vs 1 matchup against a super-team because a super-team with many HOF's was required to win the 80's East (not 1-star teams like the 00"s East).. so even though 30-win teams occasionally made the playoffs because of league-size, their top-heavy, super-team opposition was tougher than the diluted 1-star opposition that won the 00's East (01', 02', 03', 07', 09')..
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Looooooool. Might be the most cognitive dissonance per word ratio I’ve ever seen in a single post in my 15 years here.

Do you know how huge Curry was in the 16' Warriors' offense? He had peak Jordan stats and was the only unanimous MVP ever.

So when Kyrie takes out the warriors "jordan", it's impossible to lose that series.. the only reason it went 7 was because lebron wet the bed thru 4 (24 ppg and 6 TO's)

If a 2nd option like KJ outplayed MJ in 93', would Barkley get credit for a goat accomplishment?.. if Smits outplayed Shaq in 00', would Miller get credit for a goat accomplishment?.. so why does lebron get credit given kyrie's performance?..

And how can it be a carry-job when Kyrie was an equal scoring partner??... leading 5 categories by miniscule margins is a cute statistical footnote, but it was a shared load (teammates nearly matched him in each category).. only Jordan carried his team's scoring load (and shared other categories like lebron).. Jordan scored 10-20 more than pippen in every Finals (carry-jobs) and averaged more assists too.

Jordan invented the "carry-job".. that was his claim to fame that differentiated him from magic/bird/isiah.. he's the only guy that didn't have a teammate outscore him for a playoff run.. everyone needed an equal-scoring partner, while Jordan was a 1-man team scoring 10-30 more than pippen in every series and more apg
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Lebron averages 1-2 more apg, but lower TEAM assists and much worse TEAM offenses.. Bron-ball is inferior basketball to the organic ball movement systems that he loses to (Mavs, Spurs, Warriors) and Jordan's Bulls..

And it's a skill-deficit... Lebron's ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players and brand, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning, team-hopping).

So Jordan's on-ball and off-ball game fit with all player-types and systems, thus allowing better teams/offenses despite less help.. his lesser need to dominate the ball was better team basketball (higher team assists and goat team offense with less help)
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^^^^ exposes 1-9

Lebron's all-nba comes with nothing else.. no all-defense.. not even top 10 scoring

Jordan's all-nba comes with top 5 DPOY and scoring title from 88-98'.. goat longevity of goat peak

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CAREER REGULAR SEASON

Wade.'.... 22.0.. 4.7.. 5.4.. 55.4 ts.. 23.5 PER.. 0.160 ws/48.. 5.0 BPM
Pippen... 16.1.. 6.4.. 5.2.. 53.6 ts.. 18.6 PER.. 0.146 ws/48.. 4.1 BPM

Kyrie...... 22.4.. 3.7.. 5.7.. 57.2 ts.. 22.2 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 4.5 BPM
Pippen... 16.1.. 6.4.. 5.2.. 53.6 ts.. 18.6 PER.. 0.146 ws/48.. 4.1 BPM

AD.......... 24.0.. 10.4.. 2.2.. 58.8 ts.. 27.4 PER.. 0.219 ws/48.. 6.3 BPM
Pippen... 16.1.... 6.4.. 5.2.. 53.6 ts.. 18.6 PER.. 0.146 ws/48.. 4.1 BPM


CAREER PLAYOFFS

Wade.'.... 22.3.. 5.2.. 4.9.. 54.9 ts.. 22.4 PER.. 0.155 ws/48.. 5.3 BPM
Pippen... 17.5.. 7.6.. 5.0.. 53.6 ts.. 18.4 PER.. 0.140 ws/48.. 4.9 BPM

Kyrie...... 23.5.. 3.3.. 5.0.. 56.0 ts.. 21.4 PER.. 0.169 ws/48.. 4.2 BPM
Pippen... 17.5.. 7.6.. 5.0.. 53.6 ts.. 18.4 PER.. 0.140 ws/48.. 4.9 BPM

AD.......... 28.8.. 10.8.. 2.8.. 63.3 ts.. 28.4 PER.. 0.243 ws/48.. 7.4 BPM
Pippen... 17.5.... 7.6.. 5.0.. 53.6 ts.. 18.4 PER.. 0.140 ws/48.. 4.9 BPM


CAREER FINALS

Kyrie...'... 28/4/4 on 47%
Pippen... 19/7/5 on 42%
Jordan... 34/6/6 on 50%.... 2.4 tov.. 4-8 clutch shots (goat brand and team offense)
Lebron... 28/10/8 on 48%.. 3.9 tov.. 0-8 clutch shots (inferior brand and team offense, aka westbrooking)
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And when did lebron came out of the west ?
No more prime kobe, prime duncan and prime warriors and even durant was missing + not even full season played so that helps obv more "old" legs than young legs.....

i am not saying he does not deserve his ring last year but it is obv the west is not what its use to be this year, no way Lebron do as many finals he did if he was in the west during 2010-2018 and the amount of lost he had in the finals just proved it...

I mean just saying, people complain about lebron facing tough opponents in the finals is not fair, but look at duncan situation and you realize its some laughable excuses to have less rings than duncan in lebron situation.

And it wouldnt be if lebron would of won the final in 2011 at a minimum and probably 2013

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PLAYOFF PPG


88' McHale.... 25.4
88' Bird...'....... 24.5

11' Wade...... 24.5
11' Lebron.... 23.7

20' Davis.'..... 27.8
20' Lebron.... 27.7

16' Kyrie....'.. 25.8
16' Lebron... 26.2


^^^ everyone needed an elite 1st option sidekick that could lead them in scoring except Jordan - none of his teammates were big scorers and jordan averaged 10-30 more in every series, so everyone knew before hand that it would be a 1-man scoring distribution every night... (while still averaging more apg and assist %)

ultimately, Lebron/Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone to outscore them).. Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - he invented the idea of "carry-jobs" - that's his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah.

And equal-scoring partners attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced 1-man team coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his goat PER, BPM, WS/48, and VORP seasons).


Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s


Finally, Lebron was a 1-trick pony before the "decision", with only 1 Finals run like Iverson, Dwight, and Kidd... Then Wade, AD, and Kyrie elevated him to champion - so this idea that lebron brings guys titles and therefore "makes guys better" is false - teaming up doesn't equal "making guys better" - it's just stacking the deck and talent-based winning.... virtually none of his 2nd or 3rd options improved statistically alongside him because his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team--hopping, talent-based winning)..
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I forgot to add prime Shaq/lakers dynasty...

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2010 Wade.... 28 PER... 9.2 BPM
2010 Kobe..... 21 PER... 4.4 BPM


True

And lebron lost to 1-star teams (Dwight and Dirk)... and teamed up with Kobe/Pau 2 but went 2/4

- 3-16 with 2 seeds including goat choke (11'), a sweep (07') and record loss (14')

- missed playoffs with east all-star center - needed to add the coy and a pippen stats player to make 06' Playoffs

not exactly goat lol ... Or even 2nd best.. he was a 1-trick pony with 1 Finals run like AI/Dwight before the "decision"... so his resume is distorted and he's defaulted to the "dr. j" position in the rankings
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Wowsers.. some misperception itt

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Final Thread Cliffs and High Level Summary


PLAYOFF PPG


1988 McHale.... 25.4
1988 Bird.......... 24.5

2011 Wade...... 24.5
2011 Lebron.... 23.7

2020 Davis.'..... 27.8
2020 Lebron.... 27.7

2016 Kyrie'...... 25.8
2016 Lebron... 26.2

1987 Worthy.... 23.6
1987 Magic...'.. 21.1


^^^ Lebron, Magic and everyone in history are "pippens" because they needed a "jordan" (someone that could outscore them).. Jordan is the only guy that just needed a pippen - someone that averaged 10-30 less in every series (with less apg).. Jordan infact invented the idea of "carry-jobs" when he first came on the scene - it was his claim to fame and what differentiated him from bird/magic/isiah (who had equal-scoring teammates).

And equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only Jordan faced "1-man team" coverage for his entire career (thus giving ultimate integrity to his #1 ranked PER, BPM, WS/48, and also VORP seasons).

Kenny Smith talks about mj being the only 1-man show here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s


Finally, Lebron was a 1-trick pony before the "decision", with only 1 Finals run like Iverson, Dwight, and Kidd... Then Wade, AD, and Kyrie elevated him to champion - so this idea that lebron brings guys titles and therefore "makes guys better" is false - teaming up doesn't equal "making guys better" - it's just stacking the deck and talent-based winning.... virtually none of his primary teammates improved statistically alongside him because his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (team--hopping, talent-based winning)..

Talent-based winning loses to organic ball movement, so lebron has a lottery record vs Mavs, Spurs and Warriors.. ultimately, his kryptonite is his imposition of spot-up roles and resulting inability to grow an organic brand - his skillset can't develop a sophisticated organic brand or ball movement, so he's susceptible to losing to it in the absence of excessive talent advantage (talent-based winning 4/10.. AAU in the NBA, best recruiter wins)..

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* DPOY Marc Gasol won 55 games and lost in 2nd Round

* Kyle Lowry won 55 with 2nd Round loss

* KJ won 55 and made the WCF in 89' and 90'

So everyone wins 55 with 2nd Round loss...

The only reason people revere Pippen for doing it is because it was such a shock (a testament to MJ's greatness and carry-jobs).

Ultimately, the triangle was a 55-win offense if run to perfection, but only MJ or his clone (kobe) could win with it.. they literally invented the quick-iso footwork needed to maximize production (average 30) within the offense..

Indeed, the triangle sets up role players on many possessions, but still requires bailouts throughout the game - so the offense was nothing for 50 years until it met the goat bailout artists it required to win (the quick-iso goats MJ/Kobe).. then it won 11 rings in 18 years.

* AD averaged more points than Lebron in the 2020 Playoffs

* Wade averaged more in the 2011 Playoffs

* Kyrie averaged the same in the 2016 Playoffs

But don't be ashamed for Lebron because everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner (1b) for half of their rings except the goat, who won 6 rings with a true 2nd option that averaged far less in every playoffs.

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive attention for his entire career, (thus giving maximum integrity to his stats and rings).. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here.

So rings with 1b's are inferior to rings with 2nd options and Jordan has 4 more rings with 2nd options than anyone else in history - that's his irrefutable goat argument.

Most people don't realize that everyone in history had teammates that led in scoring for entire playoff runs, whereas pippen never got within 10 ppg of Jordan in any SERIES... so no one faced comparable defensive attention or has comparable ring quality to Jordan..

Infact, everyone that won 3 Finals needed a teammate to win FMVP or average 25 ppg for at least 1 of the Finals.. But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win 3 or 3-peat with Pippen.

* The Bulls had the #7 defense during the 1st three-peat, including inferior defenses in 2 of 3 Finals and 2 of 3 ECF.

So the poor defense of teammates apparently offset Pippen's good defense, thus resulting in inferior team defense - this shows that individual defense is less impactful than a 2nd option scoring role (there's only one such role)..

Unfortunately, Pippen's peak of 22 ppg is 6 to 10 points less than elite 1st options like Wade, AD, Kobe, Curry, etc - so he was a true 2nd option, and therefore inferior to the elite 1st option sidekicks that every other top 10 player enjoyed.. Only Jordan lacked an elite 1st option sidekick - he was stuck with Pippen and an inferior team defense.

Otoh, Lebron can't win with pippen because it requires dominating the scoring load (scoring way more than sidekick while beating good teams), which lebron never did.. He never beat a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (zero carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing).

And why can't Lebron beat good teams via carry-job??... it's because he's poor at the additional contested jumpshooting required of higher volume loads (the stats show he avoids and rarely attempts contested jumpers).. So he needs elite 1st options to play sidekick and therefore can't win with a "pippen" sidekick..
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