Enjoy your fraud.

AD, Rui, and Reaves are sacrificing their primes and stats for this losing "bron-ball" skillset, just like Love and Bosh did.

History shows that high-scoring ball-dominators cannot win titles and have zero titles without "decisions" to stack the deck... And of course, they cannot be the leading scorer for the BEST basketball regardless of what they do (dynasties or dominant champions), aka 0 for 12.

Lebron is 3-4 with preseason favorites, 4-7 with all-star teammates, 4-6 with Finals teams, 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds, while the goat standard is to never lose in these scenariors.

Maybe this assist thing means something. Perhaps there’s a method to fallguy’s madness!?

Knicks just won tonight vs Hawks with 31 team assists.

When the Knicks have at least 30 assists they are now 16-1 this season.

I’d greatly appreciate any thoughts on this from anyone who has a sharp basketball mind.

Or we could just stop feeding this troll and see how long he keeps posting without anyone reading or responding.

Championship teams averaged 8th in team assists since 1980, so there's a correlation between the best basketball and team assists.. Unfortunately, high scorers with low assisted rates or "ball-dominators" have a low ceiling in team assists (low average ranking)..

Specifically, their large volume of unassisted buckets lowers teammates' assists while increasing their assisted rate and spot-up role.. By turning everyone into spot-up shooter, ball-dominators prevent elite roster construction and strategy, so they can't be the leading scorer for dynasties or dominant champions (the best basketball), aka 0 for 12.

Since ball-dominators can't produce the best basketball, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can, such as jumpshooters or bigs (12 for 12)... By virtue of ranking behind the best jumpshooters and bigs, Lebron isn't a top 10 all-time player.

Lebron's inferior brand of lowering teammates' assists not only fails to produce the best basketball, but it also underachieves the most by virtue of going 3-4 with preseason favorites, 4-6 with Finals teams, 4-7 with all-star teammates, 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds, and 3 losses with homecourt... The GOAT standard is to never lose in these scenarios, which shows how far below the goat standard Lebron and all ball-dominators truly are.. Infact, they can't win titles at all without "deciding" to put the top 3 PER's in the league on 1 team and teaming up with opposing franchise players.. (edit: MJ lost twice with an all-star in the baseball year and migraine year, so he's 6-2 with an all-star and undefeated in all the other scenarios).

Some people appear incapable of that task.

You can call it trolling, but everything I said is statistical fact - there's a strong correlation between championship teams and high team assists, but ball-dominators lower teammates' assists and have low assist teams, which makes it harder for them to win..

Infact, high scorers with low-assisted rates, aka "ball-dominators" have never won except Wade in 06' and when Lebron put the top 3 PER's in the league on 1 team.. The hindering factor is that ball-dominators have large volume of unassisted buckets that reduce teammates' assists, while increasing their assisted rate or spot-up role.. By turning everyone into spot-up shooter, ball-dominators prevent elite roster construction and strategy, which makes it nearly impossible to win, while also preventing the BEST basketball - i.e. ball-dominators can't be the leading scorer for dynasties or dominant champions (the best basketball), aka 0 for 12.

Since ball-dominators make it harder to win and can't produce the best basketball, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can, such as jumpshooters or bigs (12 for 12)... By virtue of ranking behind the best jumpshooters and bigs, Lebron isn't a top 10 all-time player.

Lebron's inferior brand of lowering teammates' assists not only fails to produce the best basketball, but it also underachieves the most, such as 3-4 with preseason favorites, 4-6 with Finals teams, 4-7 with all-star teammates, 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds, and 3 losses with homecourt... The GOAT standard is to never lose in these scenarios, which shows how far below the goat standard Lebron and all ball-dominators truly are.

I've known for a while now that no one would ever concede.... 956 pages proves that... Accordingly, I always knew that when I finally won the argument, everyone would just quit and turn into ghosts.

McLovin' just wanted to see if Fidstar and Matt had any more fight left, but they saw the writing on the wall once I linked team assists to champions and listed the assist ranking of every champion since 1980 - this showed a clear correlation between championship teams and team assists, which means that Lebron's style of lowering everyone's assists was a hindering factor that negatively affected his title chances every year.

This horrible chemistry is why ball-dominators don't win without "decisions" to stack the deck, and the horrible chemistry still mostly loses... And of course they can't produce the best basketball like dynasties or dominant champions no matter what they do (0 for 12)... Ultimately, I'm happy the thread arrived at definite conclusions that are statistically-backed and fully-vetted - we have a legitimate framework that puts Lebron and all high-scoring ball-dominators outside the top 10 all-time.

Furthermore, every series loss of Lebron's playoff career shows deficits in team assists, except the 2011 Finals... So the one time in his career that he lost while out-assisting the opponent is commonly known as the greatest choke of all-time.

So Lebron's losing is correlated with assist deficits basically 100% if we exclude the GC (goat choke)... So that's another correlation in addition to the average team assist ranking for championship teams and the best basketball (dynasties or dominant champions).. We've simply identified a massive hole or weakness in Lebron's game (ball movement, chemistry/teammate performance) compared to MJ's.

Joins Malone as only players with a triple double post 40.

He has also passed Pippen in Steals list, only pure guards ahead of him now there.

Well it's settled.

fallguy wins the argument that Michael Jordan is the GOAT.

Lock her up!

Iron sharpens iron folks. If not for 10+ years of ceaseless debate, the assisted FG breakthrough would never have happened!

We should all take a bow.

For the record we’re all on which team this year based upon this framework? Not OKC right?

Lebron's horrific on-offs confirm that the Lakers are a horrific team when he's on the floor, which means they're sacrificing winning, chemistry and teammate development so Lebron can get stats:

Career steals

Lebron......... 2309..... 1530 games
Pippen......... 2307..... 1178 games
GOAT............ 2514..... 1072 games


It took Lebron 352 more games and 5 extra seasons to pass Pippen, and he still hasn't passed Jordan - he'll need 3 more seasons after this one to pass Jordan, and it took him 7 more seasons to pass Jordan's scoring.

So Lebron is a great physical talent... However, the best players let young teammates have the stat-friendly ball-handler role to develop as players, while they drop 40 and dominate at goat levels in the less stat-friendly spot-up role (bailout role) - i.e. only the best players can drop 40 and dominate from the spot-up role - this maximizes teammates by letting them have the stat-friendly ball-handler role more often than Lebron's teammates, who are stuck in spot-up roles and can't develop.
.

You got it .. Nothing last year, and nothing in this year's NBA Cup, and no Finals victory for them this year either.. Book it

High-scoring ball-dominators like SGA cannot win titles without exorbitant help, such as teaming up with multiple opposing franchise players, and they can never be the leading scorer for the best basketball no matter what they do (dynasties or dominant champions).

The Nuggets or OKC will come out of the West, or we know that Memphis has slowly developed into an organic juggernaut, so maybe it's their year.. But any of these teams will fall to the Eastern conference winner, especially OKC - they're the weakest on the championship level, similar to Luka last year or Lebron's Finals career (22-33).

Just dropping in for a wellness check, fallguy, how are things? What do you think you've accomplished with your last 100 or so posts? How are you dealing with your, um, feelings?

I know it gets confusing because LeBron has played every position on the floor, but he has only been a point guard a minority of his career.

I toss it around in my head constantly - are MJ fans trolling or are they just really stupid? You can argue it both ways, I think.

Lebron has been the primary ballhandler for every team that he's had, and this is reflected in the way he scores, which is mostly unassisted by teammates - only point guards score mostly unassisted, which means low assisted rates that are consistently in the 20's and 30's and average below 40%.

Secondly, the eye test confirms that Lebron can't score 36k as the roll man like Karl Malone, while his jumphook is nothing, so he's no Tim Duncan... He lacks a power forward skillset, which entails a jumphook, deft midrange touch, and the automatic-ness of a true big man down low - these things are usually assisted by teammates (high-assisted rates), which contrasts with Lebron's mostly unassisted buckets and low assisted rates like all point guards.. If Lebron had a highly-assisted big man skillset, he would've fit like a glove with Westbrook and other ball-handlers - he would've put on his "karl malone hat" and fit perfectly with Westbrook, Hughes, Ingram, Wade, and other ball-handlers instead of having lottery fits, goat chokes and cratering their stats.

Finally, Magic and Bird were equal or better "scorer-passer-rebounders" than Lebron, and Jordan already overtook them convincingly, so he defeated that argument already.. The things that people praise Lebron for simply aren't goat-level achievements, such as "he can guard PF's" argument because role players can too - I prefer John Salley defending PF's over Lebron.. Of course, the quality of defense matters too, and Lebron hasn't been all-defense in his 30's and over 10 years... It's obvious that an all-time great defender like Jordan that also guards multiple positions (1-3) is more valuable than a bad defender that is versatile like Lebron.. I would argue that bad to average defenders cannot be "versatile" because their low quality of defense makes them pretty replaceable on that end of the floor.

Fallguy killing it as usual. LBJ has had an awesome career putting up individual stats. His longevity is amazing and will probably never be replicated. He is the greatest stat amasser in NBA history. Credit where credit is due. On the other hand, MJ is the GOAT team player AINEFC. 6-0 doesn't lie.