A poster on another site brings up a great point about how the Lakers led for nearly 70% of the minutes in this series but still lost nearly every game, which makes it one of the biggest choke-jobs ever (mostly winning every game but still finding a way to lose every game)

Twog equating (actually saying it was worse) Lebron startling a heckler by moving his body quickly to Kobe’s sexual assault accusation says all you need to know about the guy.

Why can't younger fans accept the word of older guys that saw both guys play

You never saw Jordan, so you don't realize how great he was, while we saw both Jordan and Lebron, so we can gauge who was better - nearly anyone who saw both think Jordan was easily better..

And it isn't just based on superior winning or superior individual dominance/production rate... it's just the fact that Jordan was bigger world-wide - Lebron is pretty big and famous but nothing like Jordan, who is like Babe Ruth or Ali..

That's why no one cared about playing the 94' Bulls - no Ali, no Babe Ruth= big letdown... Once opponents got over it, it was embarassment in the playoffs and barely.500 in 95' before MJ returned to restore 3-peat

Lebron is 1/4 with AD, or 1/4 with Love, or 2/4 with Wade, so he cannot have stretches of mostly winning like 6 chips in 7 years for MJ - 21 years confirms that Lebron cannot have dynasties, 3 peats or 6 chips with any lineup, aka objectively inferior to MJ

He cannot have "unbeatable" teams that mostly win and he actually mostly loses with every cast - it's night and day.. He mostly loses regardless of cast because of his worst-ever chemistry, turnovers and clutch play (mostly loses close games).

turning towards someone from 5 feet away is threatening violence? cool story.

You realize Love didn't even play in the first finals right? And that Irving only played 1 game?

Besides he never lost in the finals with AD and as you've taught us that's way better than losing in the finals!

I have no idea what happened with Kobe - I just thought I read that Kobe was forced to apologize and admit that he 'saw it differently' than she did or something like that.. Lebron apparently needs this same counseling and professional guidance in this area.. He's unhinged and then tries to get approval from the opposing team after the incident.

Warriors were 1st timers and extremely beatable in 2015, which is why they nearly lost despite Lebron playing "Iverson-ball" (low efficiency chucking and no defense).. This was Lebron's 3rd time shooting under 40% as 1st option in a loss (so the loss could be blamed on bad efficiency), and he got single-coverage for the entire series against a much shorter defender.

Btw, the 2016 Warriors were like a well-oiled machine that got shut off suddenly with the Draymond suspension - no chance to get revved up and humming again in time - just a horrible intervention by Silver - unreal.

So Draymond missed critical time in 2016 and Durant got hurt in 2019, so these missed chips would give Curry 6 rings like MJ... (and don't cry about KD's collusion when Lebron had 6-year monopoly on colluding and hand-picking the preseason favorite from 11-16' - someone had to respond and durant's only mistake was waiting 6 years to do so).




It's disqualifying to win less than 60 with AD as a teammate, let alone win less than 50 (yikes), or miss play-ins, or be favored on-paper for only 2 of 5 preseasons with AD - and generally have weak teams and perennial underdogs with AD - all of this is disqualifying... AD is the only sidekick that is a "franchise player" and elite producer, while every other team has "normal" casts with 1 franchise player (edit: bucks)... Ultimately, only Lebron avoided "normal" casts of 1 franchise player by forming teams with 2 or 3 franchise players for the majority of his career (2011-2017, 2020-2024).. He also had all-star sidekicks many other years in between (05', 09', 18').

Ultimately, everyone in history had teammates that "took over" like Jamal Murray just did against the Lakers - the only exception is the GOAT - only the GOAT lacked teammates that could "take over", yet despite this weaker help, he won twice as many rings as the best player as anyone in 3-pointer history (modern era)... (it can easily be argued that duncan and lebron only have 3 rings as the best player).

Btw, it's a statistical fact that Lebron cannot carry weak help over top teams - he never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick (zero carry-jobs vs top teams in 2 decades).. He can't carry weak help over top teams because he's too ball-dominant at very high scoring levels (09' ECF), or he shoots horrifically at carry-job VOLUME due to the additional jumpshooting required (15' Finals).. This is the historical record.
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Lebron's relevancy officially over + MJ still leads latest goat poll = MJ survived Lebron


Scoring 40k points was Lebron's peak relevancy at old age, so MJ's advantage should increase back to previous norms from here.

Ultimately, the Klutch Sports campaign was merely a short-term shock to the basketball economy and everything will return to long-term equilibrium... hoops economics 101 (MJ will always be goat)

lmao@ acting like the Draymond ejection is why they lost. They were 3-3 with him on the court that series and lost game 7 at home.
That moron went around kicking people all post season with his general goon behavior. Silver didn't even intervene the suspension was automatic from racking up so many flagrants.
Green misses one game and that's a huge deal. Love who you tried telling me is some great player misses the entire series (the fact you can't even admit you were wrong about this tells me all I need to know about you), Irving misses all but one game and that means nothing. Great stuff as usual.

Ah yes the weak warriors who won the championship and then won 73 games- got it. More classic stuff. That's a very weak team indeed. The fact Lebron managed to win 2 games that series with that cast of jokers is actually very impressive. Even Jordan doesn't win that series .


And actually Lebron responded to Boston forming their super team after rotting with trash for 7 years. And he didn't jump on a 73 win team. As usual your "facts" are severely lacking.

We've also seen so called super teams fail miserably- take the Harden Durant Kyrie Nets for example. That blew up spectacularly. Miami worked specifically bc Wade and James aren't selfish.

You might argue Duncan and Lebron have 3 rings as the best player on their own team- but it's not clear cut. What is clear cut is your number 2 Kobe absolutely has 2 rings as the best player on his own team. Of course you don't realize this bc you think Shaq finally hit his stride as a 38 year old with the Cavs.

Win less than 60 with AD is a failure? You're referring to the AD made of glass who actually played most of the season for the first time since the bubble season this year?

and this is the core of the problem with so many MJ people. No matter who comes along and how great they are they'll never give those players an honest assesment and they'll spew comical nonsense about those players.. If they're anywhere near Jordan they'll try and tear them down. When someone clearly better than Jordan eventually comes along they'll completely deny it.

To be fair I think the Warriors win if Draymond isn't suspended. They were something stupid like + 25pp 100 possessions when he played and had all the momentum.

Cavs still had to win it though so they deserve the credit. Every Champion needs a little luck along the way. Warriors had theirs in other years.

This is a reasonable take.

We also know enough at this point to put the blame on Draymond rather than Silver or anyone else, imo.

Maybe the do maybe they don't. They still split the other 6 games with him in the lineup including losing game 7 at home where he actually played really well. It's silly to just assume they win if he plays.The game he missed wasn't even close. LeBron and Irving played out of their minds those last 3 games.

I wouldn't even call this bad luck for them.Bad luck would be curry getting hurt not a goon doing goon things.

You said you stopped watching basketball 10 years ago. What a hypocrite. You're the player who skipped half of LeBron's career. Kind of like Jordan, who skipped half of his own career.

I watched basically every game of Jordans second 3peat. Great player when he bothered to play.

To beat any great team 3 times in a row (2 at their home) you need things to go your way with luck:

• Draymond being out
  Barnes forgetting how to shoot
  Bogut getting injured
  Curry having a shooting slump
  And most importantly you need to play out of their minds (and not get injured/foul trouble etc), which they did

We are living in a 5% timeline. You run that scenario (Warriors up 3-1) 1000 times and Cavs probably win it 50 times.

I actually think it's more impressive that KD got a 3-1 lead against a fresh Warrior team with Westbrick as his teammate, compared to Lebron going 3-0 once the Warriors were suspended and injured, while his sidekick destroyed the league MVP and "closed".

Btw, the 2010 Celtics were like the current Suns - old, washed up and massive underdog - yet Lebron lost as a -500 favorite by averaging 21 on 34% for the last 3 games in one of the biggest meltdowns in NBA history.. It isn't talked about much because of LeMedia but it happened..

Again, Lebron had a league favorite and organic juggernaut by Year 7 just like Curry, Jokic and Mj did - this required "normal" casts of 1 franchise player that relied on chemistry to win.. Lebron simply gave up on this chemistry learning curve and opted for talent based winning - he rejected the normal rosters of 1 franchise player by obtaining 3 franchise players on 1 team (super-team).

So again, Lebron was the only guy colluding and hand-picking preseason favorites from 2011-2016 - Durant's only mistake was waiting 6 years to respond because it made his moves look late/desperate (warriors) or he got 2nd pickings of old and injured players (harden, kyrie).. Lebron's "decision" basically ruined KD's career but it was intentional - Klutch Sports has purposefully made everyone think that KD's collusions were the bad things while Lebron's monopoly on colluding for the previous 6 years never happened.

And yes, going 1/5 with AD is disqualifying, or having such a horrific fit with Westbrook - that was a skill deficit where Lebron lacked the off-ball game (instinct to play off teammates or expert jumpshooting skill) to fit with Westbrook.. Both Lebron and Westbrook need spacers and off-ball players, so they can't help each other.. This kind of skill deficit and inherent chemistry deficity is disqualifying...

Regarding Kobe, I guess you could say that Pau was a "franchise" player, so Kobe didn't really win with the normal 1 franchise player model, but Kobe still defeated max defensive attention in 09' and 10' (carried scoring load for playoffs and Finals of title run - 10 ppg more than all teammates) - this is quite rare and only happens on the runs that we recognize as the biggest carry-jobs ever such as 94' hakeem, 00', shaq, 03' duncan, 06' wade, 11' dirk, 19' kawhi, 21' giannis, and Jordan's 6 rings..

(we could conceivably exclude the 11' Dirk run for not quite getting to the 10 ppg threshold above all teammates in PO & Finals, and this is the case for 19' Kawhi and 21' Giannis as well - but these runs are generally viewed as carry-jobs and they were achieved with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player, so I included them).

It's insanely lucky that Green was only suspended 1 playoff game in his career, he's had the kid gloves punishment the entire time

It's also false.

Shocking.

You ever going to acknowledge the cognitive dissonance you have over Pippen failing with a well-oiled machine while simultaneously discounting that superior machine when Jordan was at the helm? You know that MJ got to play with Pippen while Pippen got to play with Pete Myers, I assume.

Your silence is deafening.

Also, do you discount "Westbrick" when he was LeBron's running mate?

I'm pretty sure he's a baller HOF'er when he's with Bron and just a dud when with Durant (while at his peak).

I mean it's funny to all of us. You see that, right?

Actually, you probably weren't watching.

The whole "no one paid attention to the Bulls without Jordan" is obviously projection. Just bc you weren't watching, the 55 wins still happened.

its weird to me people are still responding to twog in 2024

like what do you think he's gonna do at this point?

"**** i never heard that before...thats a great point, i'm gonna move lebron into my top 3 atleast"


I dunno, i've spent time doing worse, just saying

This is another lol fidstar take. We're going to completely ignore the variance that led to the Warriors being up 3-1 as though that was 100% guaranteed to happen and proclaim that the Cavs got lucky because they won the last 3 games.

The Cavs had a significantly higher net rating in the 2016 playoffs at +9.5 compared to the Warriors at +4.4. Sure Curry missed some games, but the Warriors were just +3.0/100 with Curry, vs the Cavs at +13.7/100 with Lebron.

Also, if anything, for a long series, my general assessment is that later games are more reflective of true relative strength than earlier ones (though neither is as good as simply looking at them in aggregate) because of adjustments teams can make over time. On the whole, the Cavs were just a bit better and there isn't much evidence that either team significantly overperformed expectations.

Also, Love being concussed and being awful as a result for most of the series was certainly was a bigger deal than Draymond missing one game. Draymond was 3rd in minutes played among the Warriors and was just 7 minutes behind Klay who led the team.

I think going 1-1 in 15-16 is by far the most likely scenario. yes it doesnt look likely when the Warriors are up 3-1 but what about if you select the endpoint right before Love's arm gets broken in 2015?