Winston seems to be some weird hybrid:

Intellect of Vince Young.
Attitude of Ryan Leaf.
Off field, umm, "issues" of Ben Roethlisberger.

Few years down the road, we need a 30 for 30 that starts off, "What if I told you that there was once a Heisman quarterback who combined the

?"

Lol so true

Come on NC State! Throw in a career ending injury while youre at it.

I don't care enough to get into a line by line argument about this- but that is not my understanding of things. Most notably that her tox screen did not back up her claims and that there were other inconsistencies in her story. This was all stuff I read months ago. (and it was never in debate that they slept together, so I'm not sure why you'd mention that, or why the lack of an stated attempt to extort him means anything).

Anybody familiar with my posting knows what way I typically lean in these types of situations, it's not some knee jerk defense, I'm not an FSU fan in the least.

Again, what super sucks is that the police ****ed this up so bad that nobody's ever going to get justice, whatever it should be.

Defend all college kids!!!

Dids responding to anything other than Holliday's post is criminal.

Not going out of my way to be a dick, but I have him on ignore because I he tends to make long posts about stuff I really don't care about. Not a reflection on him, but I ignore a ****load of people because I'm weird and emo and it's nice down here with my head in the sand. (but nice shot at how I "somehow" work at a University).

Now that I read it, there's there that my earlier response doesn't cover (there's no question that they had sex, there's no question Winston's a creep with a ****ty attitude about women, I still know that what I've read made me call the accuser's story into significant question and if I have any bias it would typically be on the behalf of that victim in a case like this). Either way the biggest take away should still be that we don't know what happened and the way the police handled this is ****ing shameful.

A lot of the post is just a disagreement about the intelligence of the avg 19 year old, and where I think we disagree is that I believe the baseline is a lot lower. All the super gross **** Winston said sadly doesn't strike me as atypical and I think there's an argument for him being no more notably idiotic than avg 19 year old male.

I'd like to see an investigation into the Tallahassee PD and their handling of the case. If the girl sues anyone that's who should be the main target imho.

Eh..."Somehow" was not a shot, I just have no idea in what capacity you are employed there.

We actually do know a lot about what happened, and it's really pretty straightforward if you do not start by putting the victim on trial and basically stopping there. "I vaguely remember judging the victim unfavorably, ergo don't call him a rapist." was just a pretty damn weird/stupid/lazy line to take.

I'm not sure "Observing that the victims claims did not match up with the evidence" is putting her on trial at all. It's not a judgement on her character, it's an observation that the evidence presented in the various documents I read did not support the claims I understood her to be making.

I'm being vague on specifics because it was a while ago and I don't care to look anything up and don't want to talk out my ass. At the time I was confident in that conclusion, and I think enough of myself that it was on the basis of evidence and not any desire to excuse Winston's behavior. I'm not aware of any new information coming to light that would give me a reason to change that position.

Ok, at this point I guess I'm hearing that you:
*Were aware of the vaginal tearing consistent with rape.
*Were aware the roomate actually spoke to police and contradicted his "sworn affidavit" written by Winston's lawyer.
*Understand that she went and had a rape kit done and moved forward with pressing charges even knowing she had been repeatedly invasively filmed having consensual sex with Winston.
*Decided that all paled in significance to how many drinks she thought she'd had at the bar?

If that's correct, and you don't think focusing on her exact recollection of the evening instead of her torn vagina is putting the victim on trial, then I guess I'm done here.

You are aware that rape victims typically have difficulty reconstructing the events leading up to their rape, right? There are police officers across the country who have gone through entire careers having handled dozens of rape cases, yet never had a single accuser who had actually been raped. There were always some details that were off, and so she was always lying.

It's not as if those cops are intending to be heartless deadends making victims suffer further. It's just all too easy to come to that conclusion when that's your starting point, and then you never actually get around to considering the actual compelling and relevant evidence. That's how you get a police investigation that never even tries to get ahold of the videotape or talk to the roomates or (heaven forbid) the quarterback, yet is really, really, interested in going through the victim's facebook and interviewing her friends to find out how much they trust her. You seem to agree it was a **** investigation, so perhaps try to consider the case in a different way than the investigators.

...

The vaginal tearing I do not find that odd

Guy is a an absolute gorilla probably rocking a sledgehammer down there

how big was the girl

I know I should just ignore this, or at least just leave it at; "An actual doctor examined her and found the damage consistent with rape", and did not caveat with; "or...that guy had a monster dong."

But, picture for a moment your penis gets torn in a couple of places and is actually bleeding; do you think you'd be enjoying sex at that time, or even able to continue?

In case you weren't aware, women do feel things with their vaginas. You may think of it as an inside-out penis, in fact.


Now please reply with, "I was just kidding" or something to that effect. It would make my day.

Why don't you care to look anything up? You're always thefirst to jump on someone using a word colloquially in an insensitive way, but when you engage in a discussion involving rape accusations you suddenly become the most intellectually lazy poster in SE?

You dont know how vaginas work do you?
Also, racist ban for gorilla comment?

Oh snap

You could try reading the rest of the paragraph from which that quote was taken. Spells it out pretty clearly. My position is "based on what I've read, my lean is that her story is in question". I know why I feel that way. What value is there in rehashing that to draw the same conclusion?

What that has to do with me calling out offensive speech I have no idea.

Does anyone know how to put someone on ignore using the app?

Of course I read the rest of your paragraph, it's completely consistent with the point I made. You get so high on your horse all the time I can't believe you don't suffer from constant nose bleeds, but yet you enter into an argument over an alleged rape and you're not willing to engage in an honest way.

You hide behind "I read it months ago, I trust my judgement, I hate FSU so I'd be more prone to thinking he was a rapist anyways, not going to look up details, not going to address your line by line points because I don't care to, blah blah blah." This is something you would never, ever do if someone were to confront you on why you think someone should be banned from an internet forum for using a word in a dumb, insensitive way. You would address every counterpoint made with righteous indignation. But when it comes to rape you're as flippant as possible, keeping the details and your interaction with them at a months ago length in order to avoid any kind of meaningful discussion.

The situation is, of course, that it is now you that's perceived as the brute, holliday is in the role you normally enjoy occupying, and you don't like it.

You're on some weird search of hypocrisy that doesn't exist and has nothing to do with my criticism of offensive speech. Those aren't even the same types of conversations/arguments.

If you were as familiar with my posting as you think you are, you'd know that I don't trivialize sexual assault in the least. That's my point about my "bias", not that I'm anti FSU FFS.

Clearly Holliday and I don't agree- there's no point in having a back and forth to reestablish that, especially when it's all a matter of interpretation in a situation without clear answers.

It doesn't sound like you're interested in defending yourself, but I think what may be helpful is to lay out a point or two that you think cast doubt on her story. At least then you're not just sticking your fingers in your ears and basically yelling "I'm right and you're wrong". I think most people that know anything about this story, that aren't FSU homers, are on the rape side.

It's interesting hearing the other side of this, especially coming from someone who is very much on the sexual assault SJW train like you are.

Can't judge it seriously without hearing your thought process, but at first blush it seems odd how dismissive you are of this. I guess it could be hypocritical, but I'm struggling to see why you would switch sides on this one. Unless, as I tongue in cheek hypothesized earlier, Jameis being black got your wires crossed on which cause to support.

Probably giving him the game plan for the crab legs.