TBF, Nadal has really only dominated Roger on clay. They've played 27 times in their life. 14 of those matches have been on clay and Rafa is 12-2 in those matches. On hard courts they're 5-5 and on grass Fed leads 2-1.

Given Rafa's freakish heightened abilities on clay, I think it's not unreasonable to sort by surfaces and not just declare one true GOAT. It might be fair to say that Rafa is closer to Federer on hard/grass than Fed is to Rafa on clay, but I'm still not sure that makes him better.

The problem with Fed vs Djokovic is that their career peaks will have come too far apart. Right now Federer has the lifetime edge 14-10. They only met in a GS final once and that was in 2007 and Roger won quite handily. Of course, Djokovic is sooo much better now than he was in 07 and Federer is probably a fair amt. worse, though the diff. between Fed's diminshed skill from then till now is not nearly as great as the diff. between Djok's increased skill over the same period.

Agree with iggy that Federer's fatal flaw for now has been that he could never beat Rafa at the French. The fact that he has actually played him 5 times there (4 in Finals the other in a semi) and lost every single time is pretty tough to swallow for Fed fans such as myself. He's actually never even forced 5 sets vs. Rafa at the French. Every win has been 4 sets or less, including the most one-sided best of 5 match the two have ever played in the 08 final, when Nadal won 6-1, 6-3, 6-0 in straight sets.

There's no way Djokovic can be called definitively better than either one RIGHT NOW, but he has at least forced himself into the discussion. Seeing how dominant he has been recently and the fact that his winning ways are far from over, it seems at least plausible that he puts himself aside both Rog and Rafa at some point if not passes them.

How about ranking their girlfriends too?

there's no doubt that Federer dominated his contemporaries (in a multi year stretch of his prime years) to a greater degree than Djoker or Nadal.

there's also very little doubt that the level and quantity of elite competition is much, much higher than it was during Fed's prime years


and we go round and round.

I didn't say Djokovic had a gunshot wound ffs, but he was obviously not at 100%. If you've watched Novak you know this. Every commentator said it. He said it. He was limping, the news reported on his injury, etc.

He certainly wasn't so hurt he couldn't play, but he also certainly wasn't in the fitness Nadal or Murray was in their respective matches.

And still crushed both of their souls, as usual

at this point Djoker limping around, looking gimpy, etc, is just part of who he is. I don't give him extra credit for it, health is a skill and he looks like this fairly often

It's not my fault that Djokovic is near perfect.

Best tennis player alive.
Unreal, soul-crushing winner.
Girlfriend is a 10.
Hero in his country.
Lives in Monte Carlo.

Haters jus sound jelly.

btw, i agree with iggy, novak needs to win at the french before he gets realistic GOAT projections

i do look forward to seeing him crush again this year though

I remember Roddick punking the **** out of Djokovich. Djokovich didn't wanna play anymore because it was too hot or something? lol. And Roddick just stood in the sun and walked back and forth waiting for him to get done with his "treatment"

You can never be the GOAT if this happens even once in your career.

Oh and c-vigg...uhhhh, his girl is kind of not a 10. Kind of not close to one either.

crazy talk

I remember GREEAR making a fool out of himself. It happens basically every day.

Djoker is a clear dog to win French this year

I don't think you've watched enough of Novak down the years.

If you mean <50% to win, I agree. If you mean that he is not the favorite (and in a way other than just looking at the current lines), then I think that's a much cloudier issue. I think he and Nadal have pretty comparable chances. I imagine it will get clearer as we approach the French.

yeah, so unclutch



ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

:48-:52 is why DJOK is the GOAT

All these cats in their mid 20s about to be done. Where is the 16 year phenom when u need him?

It's kinda sick that Nadal being a lefty instead of a righty might be the difference in Fed's legacy. Just such a bad matchup for Fed, Rafa just pounds balls high to the backhand and Fed doesn't have the backhand weapon to do much with it.

I do find it kind of LOL that people say that losing close matches to 2 insanely good players while pretty much dominating everybody else in the last 2 years has hurt Fed's legacy. I don't think his legacy would be better if he had retired after 2010 Aussie Open than it is now.

agree that's it's highly doubtful Rafa or Djoker will be as good as Fed when they are his current age. should be pretty obvious considering Djokers edge over Federer NOW is quite small

not sure why you wouldn't just look at current lines.

Mostly I was curious if you were expressing an actual opinion or just obliquely stating "hey guys, here's what the lines are." I find the latter uninteresting, because if I wanted that information I could easily get it myself.

French Open current odds:

Rafa 5/4
Novak 15/8
Fed 11/1
Delpo 18/1
Murray 21/1
Ferrer 40/1

Heh, sorry gump

Go long on Rafa/Novak, pray for no injuries, profit?

Well Fed is a mental midget these days

lol @ those delpo odds

FYP.

I'm basically just a casual tennis observer/fan (though I think I'll be going to Madrid this year!), I know just enough to know that the current lines are way better than any opinion I have

This is what I find so interesting. Federer can still compete and win against him in his 30s. Also when people say the competition wasn't as good during Fed's prime they are speaking the truth but he obliterated most fields during that time. Safin on a few occasions brought out the best in him but if peak Nadal/Djok were around then I have no doubt he would have upped his game even further which is a scary thought. He did what he needed to do to win back in his prime years.