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Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe?
View Poll Results: Who will end up as the GOAT
Roger Federer
374 68.12%
Rafa Nadal
96 17.49%
Novak Djokovic
62 11.29%
Andy Murray
6 1.09%
Pete Sampras
2 0.36%
Roy Emerson
0 0%
Bjorn Borg
2 0.36%
Roder Laver
2 0.36%
John McEnroe
3 0.55%
Bill Tilden
2 0.36%
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03-26-2018 , 09:14 AM
#1526
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So is Kokkinakis the GOAT now?
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-26-2018 , 03:00 PM
#1527
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lol there are still people who think Federer isn't the GOAT
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-30-2018 , 11:02 AM
#1528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41
It’s a good thing that’s not the sole determining factor in establishing GOAT
No, but a losing record against the second best candidate doesn't help the argument.
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-30-2018 , 02:04 PM
#1529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
No, but a losing record against the second best candidate doesn't help the argument.
Exactly no one is saying that it helps the argument.

It just doesn't hurt the argument enough to invalidate it.
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 12:17 AM
#1530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
No, but a losing record against the second best candidate doesn't help the argument.


He has 4 more slams than nadal. Really think about that

Like Boris Becker. He’s a hall of fame player. Huge career

He has 6 total grand slams.

Federer almost has a bigger lead on nadal than Boris Becker has slams


I’m sure you can find a 4 slam winner to have this same logic I just don’t care to find it


Along with that. He has innumerable records, weeks as #1. That QF grand slam streak. The semifinal major streak


Nadal is a great player. Top 5 all time on anyone’s list


He’s just not better than roger.
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 04:47 AM
#1531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41
He’s just not better than roger.
So Federere is the GOAT, just not better than Nadal?
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 05:16 AM
#1532
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I even consider him as a top athlete of all time. Who can you compare him to? MJ? Messi? Gretzky? Cant think of anymore that can be at his level of talent/career/success.

minor and joke sports not being considered obv
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 08:10 AM
#1533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
So Federere is the GOAT, just not better than Nadal?


Try reading sometimes.
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 08:13 AM
#1534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destro betting
I even consider him as a top athlete of all time. Who can you compare him to? MJ? Messi? Gretzky? Cant think of anymore that can be at his level of talent/career/success.

minor and joke sports not being considered obv
Serena
Bradman
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 10:34 AM
#1535
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Bonds
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 02:21 PM
#1536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio
Serena
Bradman


Lol at Serena over Federer


Serena isn’t even the greatest women’s tennis player of all time
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 03:07 PM
#1537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destro betting
I even consider him as a top athlete of all time. Who can you compare him to? MJ? Messi? Gretzky? Cant think of anymore that can be at his level of talent/career/success.

minor and joke sports not being considered obv
LeBron goat of all goats
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 03:08 PM
#1538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41
Try reading sometimes.
In a 1-1 sport, if A beats B consistently, it's real hard to argue B is the best ever, especially if A is the main competitor, not Jon Isner.

Also Messi clearly better than Federer. Competes against a much deeper talent pool.
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 05:17 PM
#1539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
In a 1-1 sport, if A beats B consistently, it's real hard to argue B is the best ever, especially if A is the main competitor, not Jon Isner.
This is not good logic.

Someone has to be the GOAT, but it does not follow that the GOAT has to have a winning record against everyone he has played against.

Brazil is the GOAT national soccer team, but they have a losing record vs the Netherlands. It doesn't mean the Dutch are the GOAT.
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
03-31-2018 , 05:38 PM
#1540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
In a 1-1 sport, if A beats B consistently, it's real hard to argue B is the best ever, especially if A is the main competitor, not Jon Isner.

Also Messi clearly better than Federer. Competes against a much deeper talent pool.
So, by consistently, you mean wins at a 3:2 ratio.

Also does it matter that this advantage is basically a result of matches played on A's best surface and B's worst surface?
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
04-01-2018 , 08:13 AM
#1541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melkerson
So, by consistently, you mean wins at a 3:2 ratio.

Also does it matter that this advantage is basically a result of matches played on A's best surface and B's worst surface?
Hard courts A is down 9-11, but outdoor hard courts A is up 8-6, so even this is not true. B has the advantage only on grass (2-1) and indoor, which isn't really tennis.

In any case, Messi proved again yesterday that he is the all sport GOAT.
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
04-01-2018 , 09:34 AM
#1542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
In a 1-1 sport, if A beats B consistently, it's real hard to argue B is the best ever, especially if A is the main competitor, not Jon Isner.

Also Messi clearly better than Federer. Competes against a much deeper talent pool.


Tennis is a match up game though. The nadal forehand to feds backhand was a real nightmare for him

I understand your point, but head to head isn’t the only game in town


Question: (assuming all other stats are the same)

For this simulation, assume H2h Federer has a 26-19 lead on nadal

But

Andy Murray has a 19-6 h2h advantage over Federer.

In this run, is Andy Murray the greatest player ever?
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
04-01-2018 , 09:35 AM
#1543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
Hard courts A is down 9-11, but outdoor hard courts A is up 8-6, so even this is not true. B has the advantage only on grass (2-1) and indoor, which isn't really tennis.



In any case, Messi proved again yesterday that he is the all sport GOAT.


But Messi has no World Cup. Therefore no GOAT.


Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
04-01-2018 , 12:41 PM
#1544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destro betting
I even consider him as a top athlete of all time. Who can you compare him to? MJ? Messi? Gretzky? Cant think of anymore that can be at his level of talent/career/success.

minor and joke sports not being considered obv
Aleksandr Karelin

887-2 as a Greco-Roman wrestler. Went undefeated for 13 years and 6 years without giving up a single point. He's also the only super-heavyweight wrestler to be able to do The Karelin Lift due to the extreme strength required to lift a 266 pound Olympian flailing about desperately trying to break out.

Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
04-01-2018 , 01:00 PM
#1545
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If you include that you may as well include Phil Taylor.
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
04-01-2018 , 01:47 PM
#1546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
Aleksandr Karelin



887-2 as a Greco-Roman wrestler. Went undefeated for 13 years and 6 years without giving up a single point. He's also the only super-heavyweight wrestler to be able to do The Karelin Lift due to the extreme strength required to lift a 266 pound Olympian flailing about desperately trying to break out.


Yeah but the guy he lost to beat a guy that was 887-1

That’s the true GOAT wrestler
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
04-02-2018 , 05:19 AM
#1547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigt2k4
Bonds
LOL
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
04-02-2018 , 07:00 AM
#1548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHip41
Tennis is a match up game though. The nadal forehand to feds backhand was a real nightmare for him

I understand your point, but head to head isn’t the only game in town


Question: (assuming all other stats are the same)

For this simulation, assume H2h Federer has a 26-19 lead on nadal

But

Andy Murray has a 19-6 h2h advantage over Federer.

In this run, is Andy Murray the greatest player ever?
If there were no Federer, Nadal would be the most popular GOAT candidate. No one is claiming Murray is GOAT. That's why the head to head with Nadal specifically isn't such a minor thing if you are going to argue Federer is GOAT. The GOAT should beat the second best player of his era, almost by definition.
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
04-02-2018 , 12:15 PM
#1549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
Federer worshippers can't handle that he has a career losing record to Nadal, including on hard courts. 1/3 of his wins against Nadal on indoor courts. He may be the GOAT, but he's never been able to beat #2 head to head except on grass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
So Federere is the GOAT, just not better than Nadal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
In a 1-1 sport, if A beats B consistently, it's real hard to argue B is the best ever, especially if A is the main competitor, not Jon Isner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
Hard courts A is down 9-11, but outdoor hard courts A is up 8-6, so even this is not true. B has the advantage only on grass (2-1) and indoor, which isn't really tennis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
If there were no Federer, Nadal would be the most popular GOAT candidate. No one is claiming Murray is GOAT. That's why the head to head with Nadal specifically isn't such a minor thing if you are going to argue Federer is GOAT. The GOAT should beat the second best player of his era, almost by definition.
Spoiler:


Spoiler:


Spoiler:




Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
04-03-2018 , 07:39 AM
#1550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estefaniocurry
If there were no Federer, Nadal would be the most popular GOAT candidate. No one is claiming Murray is GOAT. That's why the head to head with Nadal specifically isn't such a minor thing if you are going to argue Federer is GOAT. The GOAT should beat the second best player of his era, almost by definition.


Hot take


Djokovic has had a Better career than nadal


Peak Novak > peak Rafa

Same amount of masters

Novak has H2H over nadal

Only 4 grand slams behind
Rafa is the GOAT, butnahhhhh or maybe? Quote
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