fed has been losing on his best surfaces a bunch the last couple of years while in his prime he was disgustingly dominant at venues like the US Open. Nadal isn't the only guy beating Federer nowadays.

Aren't we talking about all-time GOAT? If so, Fed is a head of Nadal.

yes, all-time Greatest Of All-Time

lol, here I was thinking GOAT meant God of All Things.

Victor, In their last 6 non clay court matches(since 2006) Fed is 4-2 against Nadal.




Nadal has also been linked to a famous Spanish doctor who is known for blood doping and is also connected to many cyclists and soccer players. The Spanish government has made a very big effort to hush all of this up.

Lots of people think the reason he withdrew from Wimbledon in 2009 was to avoid a drug test.

rebecca you are WOAT

I dont know much about tennis, but I'd compare it like this:

Fed = Gretzky
Nadal = Sidney

fail? (you know when you ask that at the end you expect the worst response)

I think a better player to compare would be Ovechkin instead of Gretzky because Ovechkin is still playing.

ya but ovechkin and crosby have the same prime, the same surface, and no signs of potential injury problems. it's also hard to compare who's the best in a h2h sport vs. a team sport.

Actually, from a stylistic standpoint, Crosby/Ovechkin isn't bad. I would use Ali/Frazier, though.

I, for one, am looking forward to the ESPN 60 for 60 when they sit around a fireplace with Stoli drinks while reminiscing these moments.

How bout PBF/Pac

this is an argument for nadal=goat. steroids make you better at stuff afaict

This seems like a good place to mention that if you haven't read "Strokes of Genius" you probably should.

But read "Open" first.

i had a long post about why its silly to be sure that feds prime was 03-05 and not 07-09 but it got deleted bc my cpu died

in 03 fed lost the french in the 1st round, in 04 fed lost in the 3rd round

starting in 04 roddick was ranked 1st and in 08 a better roddick was ranked like 6th

theres just so much more competition these days, yes fed was miles ahead of the fields but i think that while feds game has slightly increased, the fields have grown tremendously in strength there really is no evidance that roger is any worse in 08, than say 03

its an easy copout to just say hes past his prime, rafa never had to play roger at his best, but i just dont get how roger "at his best" loses the french in the 1st and 3rd rounds when from 06-09 he simply cruised through the fields, sans rafa

were seeing rafa at his best right now, and in, certainly tougher fields than roger "in his peak" had to play, hes absolutely destroying them- and even if you say roger was in his prime a few years back, he still couldnt beat rafa on clay, rafa "in his prime" is a favorite vs fed on any surface right now

this is strictly in terms of peak, but i think rafas peak has been better, and i think that hes a dog to have a better career than fed simply because we cant predict how his legs will hold up

edit: lol thayer brings steroids into the discussion

Rod Laver

noone says his prime is 03-05, its 04-07 where he won 11slams, 08-10 has been very high level but a step down from the prev 4yrs

Federer made 23straight semis, Nadal's best is 5(active 3), Federer has 10straight finals(18/19), Nadal's best is 3(active) how the **** does Nadal have a better peak? Nadal only has 2 multislam years 08/10, Federer has 5: 04/05/06/07/09

is it possible Nadal will have the higher peak? sure but he sure as **** needs another 3/4 year

Federer cried like a girl when he lost the Australian Open to Nadal.

-1.

Voted Fed as a 3:1 favorite.

We're trying to have a serious discussion here.

To the steroids that's ridiculous to bring that ups.

People always write fed off when he only wins 1 gs a year or a few years back when he didn't win a masters title. He'll bounce back and I for one wouldn't be surprised if he wins the masters at the end for a 5th time something rafa hasn't managed, yet.

You've also got to look at his streak as n1.

As much as I'd like to see Federer be the GOAT, I do believe Nadal will surpass him.

Four years ago, people were stating how Nadal could never win Wimbledon, that he could never win the US open, that his playing style is only (and can only) be suited for clay court grinding play. Many were saying that Nadal's style of play was way too demanding on his body and that he will be out of the game soon. Look at where he is at now? The body is extremely resilient especially with the conditioning and training these professional athletes go through. He's changed up his game, his backhand is stronger than ever and after tweaking his service grip, he's stepping his game up to another level.

Speaking on terms of stats and history, Nadal is on target to be the GOAT. There are other players that give Nadal way more trouble than Federer gives him. I believe Nadal is way too far in Federer's head for him to turn things around in head to head match ups.

That said, Nadal takes it.

The big thing with tennis is that there's lots of stars that shine very brightly but not for long. I think the reason Fed is the GOAT is not just his dominance but his ability to sustain it for an extended period. Obviously Rafa is fantastic and could have another sick year next year, but it really wouldn't surprise me in the least if he never won another grand slam after the 2012 season. Sustained peaks like Federer's are rare in tennis.

to add on to my last post:

McEnroe looked fantastic winning 2 slams in 84 along with finaling the french (didn't play the australian) and doesn't come particularly close to ever winning again (1 US open final the next year)

Borg wins his 6th french in a row and finals Wimbledon losing for the first time in 5 years then never wins another one.

Lendl wins two slams and finals a third for two years in a row in his prime and goes on to win 2 more slams ever (both in the 3 years after his prime). Gets to 3 other finals but other than that he doesn't get super close

Sampras has a long peak where he wins 9 slams over the course of 5 years, but other than Wimbledon he just has the somewhat flukey US open.

You can look it up for other players if you want but while Nadal has played excellently and he def. has a chance to pass Federer, the odds are probably pretty long. He still has 7 slams left to go and other than Federer, nobody has really been able to sustain their peak for that long

sorry 1 last post. At the end of 2007 people were talking that Fed might break 20 slams as he had won 3, 3, 2, then 3 in the 4 years prior. He only ended up winning 4 after that streak and he probably has 1 maybe 2 more left in him.

I don't follow tennis closely enough right now to comment seriously, but i do remember that like 3-4 years ago there were serious ESPN-like debates about who was more absolutely more dominant over his competition, Federer or Tiger. If Nadal is the GOAT then he's the GOAT until the next GOAT comes along in less than 5 years, imo.