Oh well, he beat butterbean, obviously he was still in his prime.

I guess you didn't see what a retired Butterbean did to Johnny Knoxville in Jackass?

This did happen but Larry was still getting KO'd eventually. Important to note that Larry was never KO'd by anyone else yet Tyson destroyed him in 4. Tyson was a destructive force with Rooney, stopping guys like Pinklon Thomas(helluva chin) and Holmes(only time ever KO'd).

Holmes still had some skills when fighting Tyson, after he lost he was still able to earn two title shots beating decent fighters. No way he was shot as the Tyson haters like to claim. Larrys skills stayed with him because of his style, not like Tyson's whose prime wasn't going to be very long because his skills would evaporate at a fairly young age for a heavyweight.

Some people apparently don't consider going the distance with Holyfield and McCall, at ages 42 and 45, respectively, for titles, and losing, as any indicator of capability whatsoever.

I mean, a loss is a loss. I could lose to those fighters too! We can only judge how good a fighter is by wins!

This absurdity needs to stop. Tyson haters gonna hate, that's all there is to it, really. But needlessly discounting Holmes' ability and legacy to try to prove your point is in bad taste.

I can see an argument for a 190 pound Michael "Where'd my jaw go?" Johnson not being a true test. But arguing that a 38 year old Larry Holmes not being a true test is absurd.

bump for tonight's about Len Bias

No kidding. I have a bad feeling this is going to be the best one by far, which is to say I'm going to feel like utter poo afterwards.

I always liked this Simmons piece about Bias from way back in 2001

Still haunted by Len Bias

Sorry to be "that guy", but google isn't helping. Is there some way to view these legally online? Youtube and the page on this show at espn.com don't seem to have full eps and my old man, who is staying with me, deleted the Ali one before I could watch it, and I was really looking forward to it. They don't seem to be repeating these outside of the day they are aired, which seems weird given the cost of production and quality.

Thanks.

EDIT: and definitely watching Bias tonight, not giving that one a chance to be deleted. Of the subjects so far, it's the one of most interest to me and I remember it happening since I grew up a Celtics fan (had to choose Celtics or Lakers back then as they played each other most years).

FYI: reruns the following monday on espn2, not that will help this time but for future reference.

TNM,

Thanks for the heads-up. My old DVR (ReplayTV) had a good feature where you could easily find shows of the same name in no more than two clicks. Cox has had years to improve upon early DVR technology and instead pretty much sucks outside of the basic ability to record TV.

FWIW, someone PMed me the answer: you can find these on Youtube, although I tried last night and failed but that's probably because I suck.

it's not cuz you suck... the ones I've watched on youtube have not been super obv with the name in order to avoid the giant ESPN machine

have they done the bartman one yet? really wanna see that one.

Tonight's should be really interesting and hopefully really good too

Watching these on YouTube (where they have been uploaded without permission and will eventually be removed) is really no different than just downloading them via torrent. Niether one is legitimate.

no its one of the later ones i think



+1

+1, looking forward to it.

Thanks. Incidentally, I had the TV tuned to ESPN Classic, and about 30 seconds after I read Simmons mention the shoot-steal-dunk sequence Bias hid against UNC, I got to see it. Whoa!

I gotta admit I'm having trouble watching this one on Lenny Bias. I remember this so vividly as a kid growing up in Maryland in the 80s. It's getting to me a bit, not sure why.

Though this political junk at the end isn't necessary.

his brother was murdered? wow, had no idea. that family has gone through some ****, wow.

Pretty chilling stuff.

Len Bias one is tough being a huge Terps fan living in Maryland. Lost a great player that day and the NBA would have been amazing with the MJ vs Bias games

I didn't know either (the Bias situation came before my time). Damn.

I'm glad they touched on how Bias's OD'ing was one of the causes of the current f-ed up drug laws in the United States.

yea what is with all this political ****? Pretty good overall. I grew up in College Park so I've been places they mentioned (Town Hall liquors, PG Plaza where his brother died) which adds a little to the story. Cool seeing local newscasters on it too, I guess they've been around here for awhile. I liked it, but seriously wtf with all the politics?

edit: I guess they did explain how the laws changed after his death

edit 2: one of my buddies lived in 1103 Washington Hall (where he died) a couple years ago

yeah that whole piece was awesome and like grear said it was very chilling stuff.

Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of it but they explained how his death impacted the laws and where they've lead to today

awesome avatar btw