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Old 10-26-2009, 02:13 PM   #126
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

donald trump is the result of incentives put in place by limited liability economic systems
blame gov't sponsored corporatism for having to listen to this windbag
/politardness
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:45 PM   #127
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

The Holmes/Ali documentary is fantastic, the best of the series.
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:47 PM   #128
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

I don't have ESPN, can you watch this online somewhere?
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:04 AM   #129
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

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I don't have ESPN, can you watch this online somewhere?
Yeah I've missed them and unlike everything else ESPN ever does, they aren't showing it over and over again.
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:07 AM   #130
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

did you guys check 360???
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:40 AM   #131
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

Agreed that Ali/Holmes was the best of the series. Was really sad and heartbreaking.
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:57 AM   #132
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

Stumbled upon the Ali/Holmes movie last night and watched it all. It makes me angry to look back and see the condition Ali was in, and knowing that the fight would lead to more damage. So sad. Holmes was weeping after the fight - clearly upset that the ref didn't stop it. The best part of the film might have been when Ali is in the limo with one of his guys, joking around, and they're about to get out and the guy tells Ali he visited Holmes in camp yesterday and Ali pauses and gets serious and says "What'd he say? What'd he say about me?" "He said he likes you." Ali responds with a content "I like him, too." then gets out of the limo.

Great film. I liked how they showed Holmes in 1978 riding home in his pimp ride, calling his wife letting her know he's on his way....FROM HIS CAR PHONE. Then the movie ends with a modern-day 60 year old Holmes driving home, calling his wife on his hands-free phone to tell her he's on his way.
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:20 PM   #133
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

Sad to see how bad Ali looked leading up to and during that fight with Holmes. The fight should have been stopped way before it was. He shouldn't even have been fighting in the 1st place. Holmes was all but begging the ref to stop the fight and then he was crying afterwards.

Pretty telling that his longtime personal physician Ferdie Pacheco quit in 1977 when Ali refused to quit fighting. I think during the film he was asked why he didn't go to the Holmes fight and he said something to the affect of, "I didn't want to go b/c I knew what was going to happen."

Great film. I recommend anyone who missed it to check it out.
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:28 PM   #134
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

It was the best of the group, but that was obviously because of the ridiculous amount of footage they had to work with. Anytime you put Ali on screen for like 40 minutes it's going to be aweosme.
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Old 10-28-2009, 04:29 PM   #135
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

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It was the best of the group, but that was obviously because of the ridiculous amount of footage they had to work with. Anytime you put Ali on screen for like 40 minutes it's going to be aweosme.
But I'm 30, and have watched a lot of "vintage" fights and have never seen footage of Ali from this era. I'd only previously seen him at "100%" or at whatever percent you want to call him now. It was great (well, sad) to have footage from that era unearthed for me. Right on the edge when you could see that he maybe still had a chnce at a normal life but made poor decisions.

Even his workouts looked pathetic. He was having trouble with the punching bag, ffs. 7 year old kids sitting down watching him could see that something was wrong. Nevada should not have granted him permission to fight.
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:34 PM   #136
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

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Even his workouts looked pathetic. He was having trouble with the punching bag, ffs. 7 year old kids sitting down watching him could see that something was wrong. Nevada should not have granted him permission to fight.
Yeah I was shocked when it showed him hitting the bags. He could barely even get the speed bag going. I just kept thinking to myself, "How in the **** was he allowed to fight?" I just don't understand it. I guess it was all about the money for pretty much everyone involved in the fight, the state of Nevada included.
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Old 10-28-2009, 06:01 PM   #137
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Yeah I was shocked when it showed him hitting the bags. He could barely even get the speed bag going. I just kept thinking to myself, "How in the **** was he allowed to fight?" I just don't understand it. I guess it was all about the money for pretty much everyone involved in the fight, the state of Nevada included.
Yep. They said it was one of the biggest nights for Vegas sportsbooks (or something). Anyway they implied that a ot of people visited the casinos for the fight. I'm sure casino execs had absolutely no sway with the Nevada Boxing Commision or whatever it's called...
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Old 10-28-2009, 07:20 PM   #138
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

wow i loved this one

ali >>>>>> usfl >>> everything else
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:52 PM   #139
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

depressing
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Old 10-29-2009, 01:19 AM   #140
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

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Yep. They said it was one of the biggest nights for Vegas sportsbooks (or something). Anyway they implied that a ot of people visited the casinos for the fight. I'm sure casino execs had absolutely no sway with the Nevada Boxing Commision or whatever it's called...
It was megafight, Ali going for an unprecedented 4th title. All the high rollers and fight fans coming to Vegas means they're going to gamble in the pit and on the fight. Thats why big fights are held in Vegas, casinos can afford to offer site fees because they usually get their money back through gambling in the casino.


Think Holmes-Cooney broke the records for gambling although that was due to the despicable storylines used by the promoters for their own good.


Was a good documentary, feel bad for Holmes he never really had a chance to build a legacy close to Ali. His biggest fight was against The Great White Hope(Cooney) who was a product of hype. He never really had a chance to test himself against great heavyweights and was too old by the time the 90s good heavyweight era came around.
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:34 AM   #141
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

He was tested against Tyson, and got DESTROYED. And don't say he was washed up because after that fight he went on to fight for like 10 years going 18-2 or some ridiculous nonsense.

Holmes was a great fighter. Very underrated.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:32 AM   #142
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

Holmes was 38 when he fought Tyson - he wasn't washed up, but was well past his prime.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:49 AM   #143
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

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Holmes was 38 when he fought Tyson - he wasn't washed up, but was well past his prime.
This. Holmes also had a nearly two year layoff before the fight. The Tyson fight speaks more to how dominant Mike was in his prime with a real trainer rather than how old Larry Holmes was.
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:21 PM   #144
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

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Holmes was 38 when he fought Tyson - he wasn't washed up, but was well past his prime.
Ali was 38 and "not there" versus a 28 year old Holmes, and lasted what 9 rounds?

Holmes was 38 and completely capable vs. a 22 year old Tyson and got obliterated. Holmes went on to have an enviable career AFTER he turned 38.

So it's hard to say Holmes never got tested. I mean, he could have fought Tyson when he was 36. And I don't think he just woke up and crawled into the ring at 38 to fight Tyson. The guy was a professional. But he did get his butt kicked by Tyson. Most people who say Tyson beat up "tomato cans" just severely underrate how good of a boxer Holmes was. "Old" and all...

The 70s was definitely the golden era for heavyweights though. Jesus. Poor Joe Frazier. lol.
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:39 AM   #145
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

Gonna watch this soon, pumped after seeing all the positive reviews on this week's.
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Old 10-30-2009, 09:22 AM   #146
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

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Ali was 38 and "not there" versus a 28 year old Holmes, and lasted what 9 rounds?

Holmes was 38 and completely capable vs. a 22 year old Tyson and got obliterated. Holmes went on to have an enviable career AFTER he turned 38.
I don't know that it's really fair to compare these two fights. Holmes said himself that he didn't want to hurt Ali...you were never going to see the kind of dominant performance that Tyson had against Holmes.
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:01 PM   #147
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

It was good, tragic. The Holmes angle might have been most interesting even
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:37 PM   #148
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I don't know that it's really fair to compare these two fights. Holmes said himself that he didn't want to hurt Ali...you were never going to see the kind of dominant performance that Tyson had against Holmes.
You're probably right. But still people act like Tyson DESTROYING Holmes said nothing about his ability. I mean, it said a lot. Holmes never came close to looking that bad in the ring versus anybody else.

I also recall Holmes coming up with excuses "my glove got caught in the ropes", etc. but never claiming age or lack of being prepared as reason for getting destroyed.
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:33 PM   #149
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

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He was tested against Tyson, and got DESTROYED. And don't say he was washed up because after that fight he went on to fight for like 10 years going 18-2 or some ridiculous nonsense.

Holmes was a great fighter. Very underrated.
Holmes post Tyson resume is wins over bums and losses to real fighters.
The lone exception is his win over Ray Mercer.

His late career is full of guys with more losses than fingers.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:21 PM   #150
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Re: ESPN's 30 for 30 Documentary Series

Larry Holmes took a 3 year hiatus after the Tyson beating.

He beat Ray Mercer at age 42
Lost to Holyfield (in 12 rounds) at age 42, while fighting for title belts.
Lost to Oliver McCall (in 12 rounds) at age 45, while fighting for title belt.
Beat Butterbean in 10 rounds at age 52.

This is enviable of people in their prime. And he did this 3-14 years after challenging Tyson, so it's not like he was a tomato can when he fought Tyson. Not even close. And Tyson made him look like an amateur.

Tyson haters just love to cling to the "he never fought anybody" argument.
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