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08-06-2020 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinarocket
Randomly found this while browsing reddit.
Looks like another xG model, the source is on the picture itself and I don't care to make a point out of it, I don't think it's more valuable than all the other xG models out there, just wanted to post it to trigger the plop fans and laugh at arsenal and spurs a bit

Am I reading that right in that Chelsea conceded 18 goals more than "expected".

That seems unlikely.
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08-06-2020 , 10:34 AM
Why would plop fans be triggered, they won
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08-06-2020 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinarocket
Randomly found this while browsing reddit.
Looks like another xG model, the source is on the picture itself and I don't care to make a point out of it, I don't think it's more valuable than all the other xG models out there, just wanted to post it to trigger the plop fans and laugh at arsenal and spurs a bit

Definitely does not trigger me. I think most everyone expected City to be the best team again this year and this chart, as well as other xg charts, just prove that they probably should've been.
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08-06-2020 , 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
To be fair, only the NFL is popular enough that those teams are guaranteed to make money because of the revenue of each team.
The NBA pretty much prints money as well and the MLB owners have screwed the players over so much that they are making money hand over fist as well. NFL is clearly the most profitable but I'm not sure any professional franchise in the US is losing much money. No idea about NHL or lolMLS.
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08-06-2020 , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpool
The NBA pretty much prints money as well and the MLB owners have screwed the players over so much that they are making money hand over fist as well. NFL is clearly the most profitable but I'm not sure any professional franchise in the US is losing much money. No idea about NHL or lolMLS.
The NBA printing is very new though. It was only 10 years or so ago ppl were trying to sell 6+ teams and having trouble finding buyers.

As for City having the best xG, when theyre up 2 or 3-0 they often turn those wins into 5 or 6-0. Pool don't, and statsbomb had a mention of this on their podcast. Pool obviously ran good, but City had way more poor performances.

Last edited by aoFrantic; 08-06-2020 at 11:35 AM.
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08-06-2020 , 11:43 AM
Just Matt Le Tissier sharing some ridiculous conspiracy theory bullshit.

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08-06-2020 , 11:52 AM
It's great knowing this situation that many countries find themselves in with the pandemic won't get better as quickly as possible sue to the dumbest 20% or so of us.
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08-06-2020 , 02:40 PM
Things I've learned today - Plop have a throw in coach
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08-06-2020 , 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixfour
Things I've learned today - Plop have a throw in coach
Where have you been for the past 2 years? It’s been frequently mentioned.

I remember having a conversation years ago about how under-utilised throw ins were. Teams used to lose possession from their own throw so often. 50% ish
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08-06-2020 , 02:49 PM
Can honestly say I've never seen it mentioned. Could probably use it as I'm among the four people in the country that have been penalised for a foul throw
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08-06-2020 , 05:07 PM
The Plop surprise in that table isn't the fact they're behind City, I think most people would agree City is the better team but rather that they're level on xPoints with Chelsea of course
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08-06-2020 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joejoe1337
This comes up repeatedly ITT but there's very clearly an atlantic divide between whether sports teams are expected to be run as businesses or as parts of the communities they inhabit.
Indeed. The key difference being that almost every club paints themself as a "big family" and "part of the community" and "we're all in this together YWNA" etc etc. Then the money's tight and all the expendable workers are binned in record time.

Fans are right to point out the hypocrisy and expect better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake7777
“Should” seems like a pointless way to frame it, they have to be unless they are the play thing of a billionaire at the level where they can be run at a loss indefinitely which is like less than a dozen clubs worldwide. Also, toothless as it is this is sort of codified in FFP.

You can also view how best to run a business differently - Arsenal seem like a poorly run business to me in the sports model since they don’t view winning as integral to the value. This is just shitty short-sightedness which you would think will catch up to them eventually as they alienate the fanbase and it depreciates (which what we’re seeing now?)

Lots of populist noise around this which misses the point imo, its not business v non-business its how much profit to extract and still remain competitive. I would also be in favor of fan ownership model but no one ever seems to get their act together to make this happen.
I'd love a fan owned model at United. IMO "getting their act together" would require someone well known/trusted by fans to spearhead it. I think if someone like Gary Neville was to start some sort of trust where United fans could donate/invest every year with the aim to buy the club it would be possible (not likely but possible) I'm aware that G Nev is already an owner in another club just using him as an example. Arsenal fans would know who would be best suited to do something similar at Arsenal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
For sure. And I'm definitely not saying Arsenal have to make a profit here. They haven't handled this well. But, I genuinely wonder if it actually is redundant to have so many scouts, and heads of scouts in 2020. The days of scouts finding a player absolutely nobody has heard of are well, well over. Do Arsenal *really*need nearly 600 full time staff? I have no idea! This is genuinely one of those areas that I think nobody knows enough to actually comment on beyond feeling bad for those who have lost their jobs and acknowledging Arsenal could have handled this situation better.

A few years ago Arsenal fired basically their whole medical team after we had a number of years of having a poor injury record. Absolutely nobody felt bad for those people then. The "community" or "Arsenal way" or whatever wasn't invoked.
Medical staff being fired because the team consistently has one of the worst injury records in the league won't upset anyone because it's based on poor performance (or perceived poor performance) rather than just money is gonna be tight for a while so let's sack the kitchen staff etc Especially when owners/players earn more in a week than some of these people do in a decade or more. It just comes across as heartless/cruel and fairly out of touch with the avg fan.

With regard to scouts I'd say most clubs would be better off with a higher % of tech/stats guys than they currently have.
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08-07-2020 , 07:01 AM
Well, basically everything that bandit said
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08-07-2020 , 04:56 PM
Knutson said something about the arsenal firings .

Basically they might be moving away from traditional in person scouting and moving to more video scouting / tech and analytics scouting which is good and makes sense.

But then you have rumours of arsenal doing agent based deals which would be awful.

The William deal makes me think it's the latter and they are just cutting costs in a nickle and dime manner rather than doing it to be more progressive thinking.
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08-07-2020 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckSauce
Knutson said something about the arsenal firings .

Basically they might be moving away from traditional in person scouting and moving to more video scouting / tech and analytics scouting which is good and makes sense.

But then you have rumours of arsenal doing agent based deals which would be awful.

The William deal makes me think it's the latter and they are just cutting costs in a nickle and dime manner rather than doing it to be more progressive thinking.
Analytics and database scouting certainly sounds good and makes a lot of sense in theory. The days of relying on old scouts like the ones they showed in Sunderland Till I Die spouting nonsense like "this lad is wearing gloves and it aint even cold...we should pass" is well and truly over.

I just think about Martinelli as an example though...he was one of our biggest breakout players last season, and we grabbed him basically straight out of the 4th tier of the Brazilian league. Exactly the type of signing that we will need to make a lot more of in order to where we want to be. There can't be any analytics there...someone has to actually go to these games and notice these players.
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08-07-2020 , 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoseidonCubed
There can't be any analytics there...someone has to actually go to these games and notice these players.
This so much, soccer data requires a context for meaningfulness and why the advanced analytics are very much in the nascent stages still because they aren't scalable and need a human to grade and classify each action
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08-07-2020 , 09:19 PM
There is a very good athletic (miiight be espn) piece on how Martinelli was signed. He was on trial at United three times prior. He was obscure, but known.
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08-08-2020 , 02:17 AM
You still need to go see the player though. What about players that are playing in random leagues that don’t have all the stats being compiled.

Just a cost cutting measure to save £2m per year on wages.
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08-08-2020 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoseidonCubed
Analytics and database scouting certainly sounds good and makes a lot of sense in theory. The days of relying on old scouts like the ones they showed in Sunderland Till I Die spouting nonsense like "this lad is wearing gloves and it aint even cold...we should pass" is well and truly over.
Not at West Ham it isn't. Who we sign largely depends on which agent they have.
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08-08-2020 , 04:17 AM
I thought it'd be obvious that suggestion to invest more in analytics wouldn't mean NOT watching the games.

It's a constant stance of anti-analytics people that analytics people don't watch the game. Analytics are just numbers, there isn't a single serious sport organization that would ever hire someone only based on numbers
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08-08-2020 , 06:58 AM
Not seen Moneyball, cina?
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08-08-2020 , 07:27 AM
I think you guys would be surprised how often signings aren't scouted in person.
In 2020, when every match is filmed, is it more worthwhile to watch match film of a player with a team including scouts, analytics people etc vs just sending a guy half way around the world and getting their report when they get back?

Now that doesnt have to be an either/or thing every time, but the way things were done forever isn't always the best way going forward.
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08-08-2020 , 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
I think you guys would be surprised how often signings aren't scouted in person.
In 2020, when every match is filmed, is it more worthwhile to watch match film of a player with a team including scouts, analytics people etc vs just sending a guy half way around the world and getting their report when they get back?

Now that doesnt have to be an either/or thing every time, but the way things were done forever isn't always the best way going forward.
Air miles though.
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08-08-2020 , 08:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
I think you guys would be surprised how often signings aren't scouted in person.
.
how often is it?
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08-08-2020 , 09:09 AM
He doesn’t know. He’s just making it up.

Juve have just sacked Sarri.
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