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04-23-2019 , 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
...but Pool didn't have van dijk, Allisson or the FB for the full year.


I'm with Cashy like...50% of the way. I don't think there is that big of a gap between the top 2 and the rest of the top 6. Pool and City have few, if any flaws. The other teams have a bunch, but *should* be able to fix them.

Odoi did his achilles, feel bad for the kid but that's a year gone.
I agree with this, I can see the point he’s making. A huge factor as well is Chelsea have lost costa.

Also check this cracker.

04-23-2019 , 02:38 AM
Cashy's argument is not that far wrong.

Spurs and to a lesser extent Chelsea could challenge with a handful of high-quality additions. Chelsea might even get there with a top class striker.

Arsenal and Man Utd have bigger problems though. They are where they are predominately as their defence and midfield are no better than PL average, but their forwards dig them out on a regular basis. I guess you could argue if either club spent all their money on 2 world-class CBs it would solve most of their problems, but that's easier said than done.
04-23-2019 , 02:46 AM
Burnley have gone full Brexit.

[IMG]1120576030853431297[/IMG]

Gramuel's comment about giving it to Hazard is the truth. I'm not sure how Sarriball worked in Italy without such a mercurial talent in the team.
04-23-2019 , 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopie1
Burnley have gone full Brexit.



Gramuel's comment about giving it to Hazard is the truth. I'm not sure how Sarriball worked in Italy without such a mercurial talent in the team.
Fixed

Last edited by Tall Paul; 04-23-2019 at 03:12 AM. Reason: He is a **** Italian
04-23-2019 , 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashy
chelsea far better CM(quality and depth)
attack? salah = hazard, mane&firmino clearly better than willian/pedro/hodson odoi etc but chelsea again better depth(pool's cover in attack is pathetic and they are REALLY lucky with injuries)
van dijk+FBs is the clear edge

pool really lucky with their squad this season, even one long-term injury in attack would **** them over completely.
pool's squad much much closer to chelsea than to city
Their midfield is better but it's far from a blow out. Ours is underrated because it's our weakest area but there are few teams who dominate the middle against us. See city and Madrid last year. Chelsea aren't in this group.

Our defence and attack are both miles better and your point about depth is pretty ridiculous given what they would turn into with a long term injury to hazard.
04-23-2019 , 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
Cashy's argument is not that far wrong.

Spurs and to a lesser extent Chelsea could challenge with a handful of high-quality additions. Chelsea might even get there with a top class striker.

Arsenal and Man Utd have bigger problems though. They are where they are predominately as their defence and midfield are no better than PL average, but their forwards dig them out on a regular basis. I guess you could argue if either club spent all their money on 2 world-class CBs it would solve most of their problems, but that's easier said than done.
I don't think Arsenal has a bad midfield this year. Problem is Aaron Ramsey is really good and he is leaving. I like Guendouzi and Torreirra. Xhaka, when paired with someone like Torreirra has been pretty good this season. If you replace Ramsey I think the team is more or less ok in MF if you add a wide player better than Iwobi.
You're obviously underrating the mf of United as well. Even if he has been off at times, no midfield with Pogba will ever be "PL average."
Arsenal and United will obviously be competing for the same handful of defenders in the Summer. Whoever recruits better will likely have the better 2019/2020 season. Until last game, the defense had shown considerable improvement since Christmas in both metrics *and* results. Shots conceded and quality of chances had gone down from when Arsenal were getting results but were lucky to do so in the fall.
04-23-2019 , 03:14 AM
lol that tweet Hoopie posted, truth is an absolute defence to those sorts of comments so I don't know what Chelsea are playing at here
04-23-2019 , 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopie1
Burnley have gone full Brexit.

[IMG]1120576030853431297[/IMG]

Gramuel's comment about giving it to Hazard is the truth. I'm not sure how Sarriball worked in Italy without such a mercurial talent in the team.
It worked in Italy because West Ham would be competing for CL spots in Italy.

I think people have trouble with Pool's midfield because they tactically setup so that they are not reliant on the talent of the players as much as how they fit into the system.
04-23-2019 , 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
Cashy's argument is not that far wrong.

Spurs and to a lesser extent Chelsea could challenge with a handful of high-quality additions. Chelsea might even get there with a top class striker.

Arsenal and Man Utd have bigger problems though. They are where they are predominately as their defence and midfield are no better than PL average, but their forwards dig them out on a regular basis. I guess you could argue if either club spent all their money on 2 world-class CBs it would solve most of their problems, but that's easier said than done.
Which world class CB are available? VvD, Chillin, Ramos etc aren’t going anywhere.

De ligt you’re going to be battling against Barca for him. Koulibaly probably the only one available.

I’d also argue that full backs are massively important too. A bulk of the big sides attacks come from there.

Simple things for both though like AWB would be a major upgrade for Utd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
I don't think Arsenal has a bad midfield this year. Problem is Aaron Ramsey is really good and he is leaving. I like Guendouzi and Torreirra. Xhaka, when paired with someone like Torreirra has been pretty good this season. If you replace Ramsey I think the team is more or less ok in MF if you add a wide player better than Iwobi.
You're obviously underrating the mf of United as well. Even if he has been off at times, no midfield with Pogba will ever be "PL average."
Arsenal and United will obviously be competing for the same handful of defenders in the Summer. Whoever recruits better will likely have the better 2019/2020 season. Until last game, the defense had shown considerable improvement since Christmas in both metrics *and* results. Shots conceded and quality of chances had gone down from when Arsenal were getting results but were lucky to do so in the fall.
Think you’re over rating both midfields to be honest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aoFrantic
It worked in Italy because West Ham would be competing for CL spots in Italy.

I think people have trouble with Pool's midfield because they tactically setup so that they are not reliant on the talent of the players as much as how they fit into the system.
Would they? I know Napoli disappointed in the EL and league this year. They’ve shown they can compete I can’t see WHU completely dominating both Plop and PSG.
04-23-2019 , 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashy
pretty ridiculous how people are constantly blinded short-term

chelsea won the league w/ 93 pts 2 seasons ago, probably with a worse squad(matic and old man cesc starting a lot of games)

while pool finished with 75pts last season
1: The CM pairing of Matic and Cesc was way more effective than the one we have now, remember Kante is not playing CM. Jorginho is, Cesc was an assist machine, Jorginho is an assist vacuum with zero this year, zero. You are the one being blind here.

2:Costa.

Our squad was much more balanced and effective than now.
04-23-2019 , 04:03 AM
Can't believe I am sweating an Arsenal above 70.5 points bet against KDawg. We are talking 5 points out of 4 games. Yet it is a serious sweat.

Also I would love to quote all the lolAuba goal bet comments, but you guys know who you are. Shame, shame.
04-23-2019 , 04:11 AM
Have not bothered to check if the stats are correct, but this just gets to show you that stats without context can only show you so much.

Quote:
Also check this cracker.

04-23-2019 , 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingweed
Think you’re over rating both midfields to be honest.
Yep. You can probably name 1 MF from most PL clubs who would at the very least be a rotation option for Utd/Arse (and Spurs fwiw).

Off the top of my head, Gomes, Gueye (Everton), Doucouré, Maddison, Tielemans, Neves, Moutinho, Rice, Cook, Milivojevic, JWP.
04-23-2019 , 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC_USA
Literally the only player on Chelsea who sniffs our XI is Hazard and given our formation and the way he strolls around the pitch like an Ozil I don't even see where he gets in.

What Chelsea midfielders are so much better than ours? Kante? Fabinho has been really ****ing good in that role.

And what depth are you talking about? Keita, Shaqiri, Ox (who is now looking like he is available to selected again) can all slot in the attacking spots. It's not like Salah firmino or mane getting hurt means we have to play Origi or Sturridge but even Divock and the corpse of Sterling are better than Fat Higuain.

Our 4th choice center back has been awesome playing next to the greatest CB in the world and Joe Gomez can play CB or RB.

Alison is notably better than Kepa too.

What positions specifically are you saying Chelsea have better players in and who are those players? And what is this superior depth you speak of?
Kante is far far better than Fabinho let's be serious here.
04-23-2019 , 04:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingweed
Which world class CB are available? VvD, Chillin, Ramos etc aren’t going anywhere.

De ligt you’re going to be battling against Barca for him. Koulibaly probably the only one available.

I’d also argue that full backs are massively important too. A bulk of the big sides attacks come from there.

Simple things for both though like AWB would be a major upgrade for Utd.



Think you’re over rating both midfields to be honest.



Would they? I know Napoli disappointed in the EL and league this year. They’ve shown they can compete I can’t see WHU completely dominating both Plop and PSG.
Atalanta are probably going to end up in the CL. They're a fun team! They do not have that many quality players. Roma and Inter are not good. I would take Wolves, Everton or Leicester over Atalanta/Inter without much hesitation.

I've seen very few games where I have thought the Arsenal midfield was an issue this year. The defense has been, obviously. When playing with two forwards we are hapless without Iwobi to connect midfield and attack as well.

If Arsenal go for a CB other than Koulibaly (which is very doubtful) I see it being more of a Laporte situation. From a kid nobody has heard of to being a gigantic purchase in a short period. Seen a few names like that rattling around Bundesliga, can't remember them otoh.
04-23-2019 , 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
Yep. You can probably name 1 MF from most PL clubs who would at the very least be a rotation option for Utd/Arse (and Spurs fwiw).

Off the top of my head, Gomes, Gueye (Everton), Doucouré, Maddison, Tielemans, Neves, Moutinho, Rice, Cook, Milivojevic, JWP.
I don't think that is necessarily a knock on any club. Chelsea bought Drinkwater. City bought Delph. At the very least, Tielemans and Neves have already played CL football for very good teams. They are also young. Any club in the world would be happy to have them.
It's just super tough for a clubs 5th or 6th best midfielder to be better than the best guy at a solid midtable team these days. Would Arsenal/United like if Elneny or McTominay were Neves instead? Sure, but I'm not sure how reasonable it is.

Again, I think people have just gotten their vision tinted by Pool and City overtaking the space presided recently by clubs like Bayern/Madrid. Those squads have as much, or more problems than Chelsea/Arsenal/United. They're more likely to fix them, have less competition and Bayern will still win the league though.

You could very well convince me it is a midfield problem that Arsenal are *11th* in the PL in shot attempts per game, but I am not convinced that it is. I think it is mostly tactics/personnel, with Emery being the one mostly at fault with poor starting lineups (and good subs to fix it).

Last edited by aoFrantic; 04-23-2019 at 04:48 AM.
04-23-2019 , 04:55 AM
Bored and having fun looking up stats on whoscored:
Neither City nor Pool have conceded a counter attack goal this season.
Palace are 1st in the league in penalties scored, imagine that is mostly Zaha creating them.
Leicester are 17th in goals from open play.
Chelsea only have 2 fewer goals from open play than Liverpool, despite 21 fewer altogether.
Another fun one is that VVD is 4th on pool in touches in the opponent's area

Last edited by aoFrantic; 04-23-2019 at 05:03 AM.
04-23-2019 , 05:02 AM
chelsea over pool next year seems a potentially good bet assuming der markt is generous with its odds. regression in opposite directions for both teams, plus getting rid of hazard will do chelsea a favour as long as they spend the proceeds in a halfway reasonable manner
04-23-2019 , 05:45 AM
04-23-2019 , 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC_USA
Literally the only player on Chelsea who sniffs our XI is Hazard and given our formation and the way he strolls around the pitch like an Ozil I don't even see where he gets in.
04-23-2019 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOIDS
chelsea over pool next year seems a potentially good bet assuming der markt is generous with its odds. regression in opposite directions for both teams, plus getting rid of hazard will do chelsea a favour as long as they spend the proceeds in a halfway reasonable manner
They might struggle with the last part if their transfer ban is upheld.
04-23-2019 , 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
Cashy's argument is not that far wrong.

Spurs and to a lesser extent Chelsea could challenge with a handful of high-quality additions. Chelsea might even get there with a top class striker.

Arsenal and Man Utd have bigger problems though. They are where they are predominately as their defence and midfield are no better than PL average, but their forwards dig them out on a regular basis. I guess you could argue if either club spent all their money on 2 world-class CBs it would solve most of their problems, but that's easier said than done.
ye we are in by far the worst spot of the top6 squad wise

-not a single elite asset(all of the other top 6 have at least 1)
-apart from our 2 very good but aging strikers we have no attacking threat whatsoever -> we need at least 2 very, very good attackers/wingers
-we need a topclass "dynamic" CM(similiar to Ramsey)
-LB(monreal is old and kola is a wingback/LM)
-CB situation is actually not bad, Holding looked really good before his season-ending injury, Sokratis played really well this season and Kos is still bossing it. replace mustafi with a young CB and we are good

so in the end we would have to go out and spend BIG this window and
get players like pepe, havertz and co& who could make the jump to elite fairly soon
04-23-2019 , 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinarocket
heaton getting booked for timewasting half an hour in tells you everything you need to know about sean dyche gameplan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Paul
It's almost as if he's trying to give us the best chance of getting something out of an away game against a team with vastly superior (and more expensive) players.
Isn't this why guys like Dyche don't get better jobs?

Their only aspiration is to stay in the league. What big clubs want managers who don't try to play good football and win rather then trying to achieve the minimum goal? Dyche. in particular, has a penchant for complaining about foreign managers getting all the praise while he get's none yet he sets out to make up the numbers every year.
04-23-2019 , 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashy
chelsea far better CM(quality and depth)
attack? salah = hazard, mane&firmino clearly better than willian/pedro/hodson odoi etc but chelsea again better depth(pool's cover in attack is pathetic and they are REALLY lucky with injuries)
van dijk+FBs is the clear edge

pool really lucky with their squad this season, even one long-term injury in attack would **** them over completely.
pool's squad much much closer to chelsea than to city
Quote:
Originally Posted by cashy
pretty ridiculous how people are constantly blinded short-term

chelsea won the league w/ 93 pts 2 seasons ago, probably with a worse squad(matic and old man cesc starting a lot of games)

while pool finished with 75pts last season
Again.....lo****ingl
04-23-2019 , 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpool
Isn't this why guys like Dyche don't get better jobs?

Their only aspiration is to stay in the league. What big clubs want managers who don't try to play good football and win rather then trying to achieve the minimum goal? Dyche. in particular, has a penchant for complaining about foreign managers getting all the praise while he get's none yet he sets out to make up the numbers every year.
They are doing a mighty fine job at that if I may say so.

The minimum goal? I would argue Burnley are achieving far beyond expectation.

And yes I know this opinion will be unpopular.

      
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