Nice celebration

Daily double ftw!

Catching up on some thought-provoking posts...

Anyone else think it's time to just write that into the rule book, instead of watching refs follow that unwritten advice 90% of the time (to the complaints of the team that was fouled) and then unexpectedly ruin the game the other 10%? All you have to do is redefine a 2nd yellow as something different than a 1st yellow. Leave the clumsy challenges for the 1st yellow, and limit the 2nd yellow to things like the intentional shirt-pull to kill a counterattack and other cynical fouls perpetrated with clear intent. (Maybe we should add an orange card, lol, three yellows = two oranges = one red!)

The game needs a mechanism to prevent the "bull in a china shop" approach to defending we saw from Can and Lucas yesterday. But (1) the current system yields unpredictable results as we saw yesterday, and (2) there is no middle ground between a warning and an extreme action that fundamentally alters the match for the worse. (One team going down to ten men flat out sucks for everyone unless that team is already losing)

The counterargument is that underlying simplicity is part of what makes the sport beautiful, and mucking it up with complexities should be avoided. I don't see it this way but I respect that view.

Missed this gem yesterday.

More gold; needs more love.

I'm fine with the way it is and refs using common sense and it is common that they don't send off for a weak yellow card if the player is already on a yellow. Happens all the time 'If he wasn't on a yellow, he'd have been booked for that'.

When they give a yellow for something that you can say, it's pretty meh, i'm fine with them getting the rub of the green for a yellow card offence later on as well. Again most good refs do, do that.

Also more than happy with a load of non yellow card fouls/plays leading up to an eventual second yellow.

Fine the way it is IMO

I disagree I believe that common sense is a flaw when trying to officiate games based on a rule book. If anything let the referees apply the rules literally and if that is done the players will be changing their behavior as the change is done and we won't be talking as much about the necessity of allowing common sense when a player makes a yellow card worthy foul because he'll be so scared to get sent off and the game will be more enjoyable, less fouls and more action. It also leads the media and fans to devote a ton of attention to refereeing which is one of the biggest aids in football.

Once a player has been booked, if anything he ought to be under heavier scrutiny and be given less leniency than a player who hasn't. The idea that a player who's been cautioned already should be allowed to get away with a foul that would be a booking if committed by anyone else on the field is ****ing stupid.

+1.

I don't understand why you're being so negative. We brought in a new manager who was immediately handcuffed in his quest to reprogram the team by the loss of his top three strikers, the other expensive attacker brought in this summer, and another good player/our top midfielder/the team's captain. He appears to be doing reasonably well in that quest despite a fairly tough and very congested slate of games. And as the missing players start to trickle back in we're seeing a clear improvement in the final product.

On the other hand, I don't understand this sentiment either. What boom? Has anyone ITT expressed anything beyond happiness, hope and optimism for the future? And I would hope we'd all have that with respect to our clubs, or why bother with this. The most extreme predictions I've noticed have been along the lines of "Klopp's teaching and tactics are starting to sink it, I think we can sneak into the top four this year since Chelsea is in such bad form." Hoping for an outcome somewhere between the high of two years ago and the lows of last year doesn't seem all that "boomy" to me. The snarky, LFC-mocking El Razor post (which is redundant, I could've just said "the El Razor post") was basically just a series of quotes from the most pessimistic LFC fan ITT book-ended by a post from one of the more optimistic ones. What's the point? A pessimistic fan was pessimistic when we went down 1-0, and then an optimistic fan was really excited when we went on to win 3-1? Wow. Impressive work.

El R: I've been busting your balls recently as a proxy for all the Spurs fans ITT simply because I'd rather hear about Spurs from you guys than Plop jokes. Nothing personal.

Interesting responses to the yellow card inquiry.

For those of you who take the Rocket/Ostrich/Hoopie position, how do you feel about sending off as the (only) punishment? What always bothered me a little was the extreme effect it has on the game. Deterrence is important, but sometimes I question whether the punishment fits the crime (particularly when--like it or not--it can be arbitrary, as we've discussed). I don't have a better suggestion, just curious.

Any thoughts?

If it's a yellow when you aren't on a yellow then it's a yellow when you are on one. This whole argument about it having to be something more blatant is truly laughable. You are on a yellow, it's up to you to play with more caution and not get yourself sent off.

Lucas should have went yday esp after he booked Mikel a few mins earlier for something pretty similar iirc

This. A player on a yellow card shouldn't have an advantage over one who isn't.

Exactly. Players get their warnings before they get the 1st yellow. Why should it reset and you be allowed even more warnings?

nope
only true for fouls that can easily be categorized(like tactical foul yellows)
for most situations that's not the case though and given that there rarely is a clear decision-making framework leaning more towards the lenient side when a player is already on a yellow is super standard

I've always been an advocate of a 10 minute sin bin for a second yellow.

lolol

ok buddy

well its not gonna be spuds obviously so its either pool or everton and pool are pretty **** so theres a chance

the way we defended today I'd back my daughter's school team to bag at least one in 90 mins vs us, so I'm not getting carried away about our top 6 chances this season. Plenty of positives going forward, but Sunderland are absolutely terrible so it's difficult to get too excited.

Entertaining stuff though, at least.

everyone will agree that it's standard, what people are discussing is wether it should be

maybe I'm misunderstanding you

i'm saying that's how it should be
fingerspitzengefühl ffs, sending offs like rvp vs barca should never ever happen even though it's acceptable "by the letter of the law"

Terrible half from soton here

Agree that Everton shouldn't be ruled out, feels pretty wide open to me. We seem to say that every year and things always seem to settle into something approximating the usual hierarchy. But I don't know...

Chelsea seem to be in more turmoil than the weakest of the previous season's top four usually is. And there is no Bale/Modric or Suarez/Sturridge at the Europa level clubs waiting to slide right in. We've discussed the impact the TV money has started to have on the talent at the mid-sized clubs. Someone getting lucky and binking a few Payet/Ayew types at the same time is plausible to me, which can easily translate to the lighting in a bottle lasting 38 games instead of the usual 15-20 we've seen from Southampton-level clubs the past handful of seasons.

Everton has a lot going for them. They have continuity. They have a lot of players who are really good without being so good that they get poached (Lukaku for example is just about as good as a striker can be without forcing a move). Almost everyone who plays could at least be a squad player at a top team. And this season they also have what any mid-table side requires to make a run: players on the brink of a move who provide a season of elite production before that move occurs. Barkley and Stones look very strong.

I think I'm with BAIDS on this one.

I totally disagree.

Say you get booked for something completely trivial and then you're running through on goal from a marginal offside call and shoot.

Should you be sent off for kicking the ball away?

What about a 50/50 challenge/shoulder when both are going for the ball. He gets to it a split second before you and the ball goes away therefore your momentum carries you into him. Should you be sent off for that?

There has to be common sense and any good ref will do that.

I'd argue you shouldn't be booked for either of these. But yeah, if you're already on a yellow you should expect to have to be a little more careful.

Speaking of 2nd yellows