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Old 10-27-2015, 05:43 AM   #15576
Hoopie1
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Re: English Football 2015-16

lol
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Old 10-27-2015, 05:46 AM   #15577
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Re: English Football 2015-16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfred1 View Post
Think someones made
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindFckr View Post
Confirmed.

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Originally Posted by PNHH View Post
Is it good (for a non homer)?
lol.

--------

Caley is a Spurs fan fwiw
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Old 10-27-2015, 05:49 AM   #15578
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Re: English Football 2015-16

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If you lose I'll happily spoiler you via Twitter. Or carrier pigeon if you have no internet/phone access.
He's on twitch as well.
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Old 10-27-2015, 05:57 AM   #15579
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Re: English Football 2015-16

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Originally Posted by Elrazor View Post

If you're judging players it's far better to use the the deductive approach, use the eye test first up, and then when you think you've identified a good player, see if the stats agree. If you take the inductive approach and check the stats first, then you will have already formed an opinion about that player and the conclusions of your eye-test will probably be biased - as well as possibly ignoring other decent players on show.
On the flip side you could watch a player at a match when during he gets sent off for trying to finger-**** the lineswoman, spits in the face of the opposition's manager and kicks a ball boy, but in his previous 15 PL matches he has a shot conversion rate of 0.85, scored seven hattricks and won the ballon d'or.
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Old 10-27-2015, 06:17 AM   #15580
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Re: English Football 2015-16

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Originally Posted by Elrazor View Post
Nobody in football, or nobody itt?

Either way, I think you're wrong. People consistently use stats to drive arguments, rather than create arguments supplemented by stats.
Having a masters in psych tells me you should probably know that an eye-test is usually going to be subject to considerable bias, not to mention the amount of games one would have to watch to make anything close to a semblance of solid analysis and, even then, it's still probably going to be a **** assessment.
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Old 10-27-2015, 06:25 AM   #15581
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Re: English Football 2015-16

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Is it good (for a non homer)?

No. Shameless money making exercise that I enjoy because I can't get enough Fergie. In the book's defence it is consistent and themed logically throughout. His post-retirement book was a literary tragedy due to a shambolic structure. 'Managing My Life' from just after the treble is one of the GOAT manager autobiogs precisely because it has a detailed chronological approach, he publishers threw that under the bus to meet a Christmas deadline. I think Fergie will cope though.
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Old 10-27-2015, 06:58 AM   #15582
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Re: English Football 2015-16

Quote:
Originally Posted by BookerT View Post
Having a masters in psych tells me you should probably know that an eye-test is usually going to be subject to considerable bias, not to mention the amount of games one would have to watch to make anything close to a semblance of solid analysis and, even then, it's still probably going to be a **** assessment.
I don't disagree - the point I made was that loading up on stats before watching a player will just distort those biases further.

WRT eye test, most Spurs fans were hot on Dele Alli about watching him for about 10 mins against Real Madrid in a friendly - 2 months later he's playing for England.

I get your point about sample sizes but if you watch a lot of football then picking good players out is not so difficult, and obviously the more you watch a player the more evidence you have (but also the more you'll be susceptible to confirmation bias if you have already decided they are a good player).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Halo View Post
On the flip side you could watch a player at a match when during he gets sent off for trying to finger-**** the lineswoman, spits in the face of the opposition's manager and kicks a ball boy, but in his previous 15 PL matches he has a shot conversion rate of 0.85, scored seven hattricks and won the ballon d'or.
Sounds like a great fit for Chelsea.
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Old 10-27-2015, 07:31 AM   #15583
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Re: English Football 2015-16

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Originally Posted by Elrazor View Post
I don't disagree - the point I made was that loading up on stats before watching a player will just distort those biases further.

WRT eye test, most Spurs fans were hot on Dele Alli about watching him for about 10 mins against Real Madrid in a friendly - 2 months later he's playing for England.

I get your point about sample sizes but if you watch a lot of football then picking good players out is not so difficult, and obviously the more you watch a player the more evidence you have (but also the more you'll be susceptible to confirmation bias if you have already decided they are a good player).
I mean I see your point, things are obviously not black and white and you can't just use one without using the other. I just think if you know where to look and don't just sort by score-points you can probably make some decent approximations before you even see said player kick a ball with your own eyes, albeit you will probably be working with a confirmation bias when you finally do see a player you believe is good.
But to counter your Dele Alli point, there are instances where you can single a player out and know that he's quality relatively quickly. But for all of those there are also a bunch of Quaresmas and Bojans.
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Old 10-27-2015, 07:34 AM   #15584
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Re: English Football 2015-16

Quote:
Originally Posted by BookerT View Post
I mean I see your point, things are obviously not black and white and you can't just use one without using the other. I just think if you know where to look and don't just sort by score-points you can probably make some decent approximations before you even see said player kick a ball with your own eyes, albeit you will probably be working with a confirmation bias when you finally do see a player you believe is good.
But to counter your Dele Alli point, there are instances where you can single a player out and know that he's quality relatively quickly. But for all of those there are also a bunch of Quaresmas and Bojans.
But bojan and quaresma are quality entertainment
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:08 AM   #15585
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Re: English Football 2015-16

Whilst we're talking stats, I was having a play around with the chance creation map Paul Riley's produced. Open play creation for this season so far.

Ozil - Unbelievable


Hazard - He's still trying to get involved at least


Coutinho - Meh


Depay
Spoiler:
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:12 AM   #15586
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Re: English Football 2015-16

lol that Depay one is amazing.
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:16 AM   #15587
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Re: English Football 2015-16

don't these NERDS read this thread? They would know that Özil sucks and doesn't turn up in big games

Also I ****ed up the Sterling vs Depay bet vs bandit, because we included minutes played and ldo Depay won't play when he is busy sucking balls
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:19 AM   #15588
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Re: English Football 2015-16

Memphis looks like he might have a case of the super-talented-but-too-stupid-to-become-elite syndrom.. just no off the ball movement and always trying to take-on 2-3 players at one time
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:27 AM   #15589
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Re: English Football 2015-16

05-07-2015, 01:41 PM
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Utd will ruin him
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:29 AM   #15590
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Re: English Football 2015-16

So Luke Brattan got released by Brisbane Roar and signs for Man City two months later, only to be loaned to us the same day. Not sure what the angle is here
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:50 AM   #15591
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Re: English Football 2015-16

Payet

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Old 10-27-2015, 09:14 AM   #15592
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Re: English Football 2015-16

Memfish confirmed underwhelming
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:32 AM   #15593
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Re: English Football 2015-16

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Originally Posted by BookerT View Post
Memphis looks like he might have a case of the super-talented-but-too-stupid-to-become-elite syndrom.. just no off the ball movement and always trying to take-on 2-3 players at one time
This part seems obvious, and as for the part before: can someone super talented based solely on physical attributes (and admittedly technique handling a football, to seperate him from other athletes like olympic sprinters or handegg players)?

Was Rooney ever elite? He isn't now? Did he decline a lot physically?

Last edited by Ambush; 10-27-2015 at 09:33 AM. Reason: No doubt a very useful (counter attacking) player for years to come. Yay Holland
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:45 AM   #15594
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Re: English Football 2015-16

LOL CONSTY

Posts Oezil's stats and then Hazard, Coutinho, Depay and Payet.

Expected to post Eriksen's stats sometime after Cattermole and Tiote.

-----

"Was Rooney ever elite?" LOL
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:49 AM   #15595
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Re: English Football 2015-16

wut
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Old 10-27-2015, 10:02 AM   #15596
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Re: English Football 2015-16

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Originally Posted by Ambush View Post
and as for the part before: can someone be super talented based solely on physical attributes (and admittedly technique handling a football, to seperate him from other athletes like olympic sprinters or handegg players)?
I assume the question is "can someone be super talented based on the raw ingredients alone?" and yes, yes they can. Memphis probably could do things that few others could, but he seems to lack the football IQ needed to string together the inputs and create solid output, so it remains to be seen whether or not he will come to do things few others can on a consistent basis -> be elite.
So I think you can make a clear distinction between a great player and a great talent.

It's early days and I haven't really delved into it (that is, I'm going by the famous eye-test) but Martial, for instance, seems to be miles ahead of Memphis in football IQ.

Last edited by BookerT; 10-27-2015 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 10-27-2015, 10:18 AM   #15597
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Re: English Football 2015-16

Eriksen stats please.
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Old 10-27-2015, 10:28 AM   #15598
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Re: English Football 2015-16

young Ross is a decent current example of a player with a ****load of power and technique who hasn't had the tactical brain to fully realise his potential. He's definitely heading in the right direction this season though.
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Old 10-27-2015, 10:37 AM   #15599
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Re: English Football 2015-16

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I assume the question is "can someone be super talented based on the raw ingredients alone?" and yes, yes they can. Memphis probably could do things that few others could, but he seems to lack the football IQ needed to string together the inputs and create solid output, so it remains to be seen whether or not he will come to do things few others can on a consistent basis -> be elite.
So I think you can make a clear distinction between a great player and a great talent.

It's early days and I haven't really delved into it (that is, I'm going by the famous eye-test) but Martial, for instance, seems to be miles ahead of Memphis in football IQ.
That's not the question, I'm wondering wether football IQ isn't (to some extent) also part of what makes someone a talent? Or is football IQ a raw ingredient as you call it. Or, if not, can decision making (enough of it to be elite) be taught/learned to someone who seems to lack football IQ. Because if it can't someone like Memphis will never be elite regardless of his physical talent, maybe he's not such a talented player then.

Feel free to LOL HH, but the Rooney questions are just to answer the other one.
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Old 10-27-2015, 10:39 AM   #15600
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Re: English Football 2015-16

if picking out good players is not so difficult for the average fan then why does levy sign so much dross
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