They were excellent compared to the opposition and should have achieved far more.

In 02 they lost to the eventual winners Brazil in a game they probably should have won. France were eliminated from the tournament in the group stages without scoring a single goal, Portugal didn't get out of the groups ahead of Korea/USA and England KO'd Argentina. Spain were miles from what they are now and got beat by Korea in the quarter finals.

Germany got to the finals with arguably the worst national team they've ever had, a side England had beaten 5-0 just a year earlier.

Hughes/Linekar/Rush left for the ££. Juve/Barca could offer more money than any of the English teams.

Everyone's a business genius in hindsight aren't they. Sky put more money in than any other broadcaster was willing to.

Sturridge was a top youth player at Man City academy yet decided it was a good idea to move to Chelsea for the ££ when he was already 20 and his contract expired, this was the 09 Chelsea with prime Drogba. Him making terrible career decisions has nothing to do with the state of English football.

For the top clubs, the gate receipts are a drop in the ocean.
They could easily afford to let everyone in for nothing.

I don't understand the point you were trying to make? My post was aimed at peteblow's point that PL clubs buy average foreigners when actually they're better than the English players that would have played in the positions if the three foreigner rule was still active.

Lol?

Alive, but not attending matches. OK, I'll admit that I can understand people are nostalgic about the atmosphere and such back then.

It doesn't particularly appeal to me though, most people in football stadiums are awful and I prefer to keep my distance from them. But that's me.

lowering prices when stadiums sell out doesn't make any sense as football clubs are first and foremost a business, deal with it or stop glory hunting and support an amateur club instead

The club I'm glory hunting for is subsidizing its ticket prices to fill 2-3 sections of their stadium with hardcore fans that are willing to provide some atmosphere.

See above

marketing bullcrap

Meh, as one of the resident olds, I have to say that the current atmosphere sucks the hair off a donkey's nuts compared to earlier.

Try going to the Emirates and it's like going to a ****ing afternoon tea session at Fortnum and Mason (not singling out Emirates, just have more experience going there than other places).
It's the same when FC Copenhagen plays at home. 3/4 sections are full of people who likely don't even know which is the home team.

I'm not saying they should let everyone in for free, but if they did it wouldn't make much difference to them. Besides, they'd make most of the money back in extra merchandising.

But the quality of the football has definitely gone up. I just prefer watching on my TV with friends instead of going to matches.
Having said that, I am living in yankland now, so I don't get many options to actually go anymore.

.

That's not unique to football though.
All sports have improved, mainly down to modern training methods and nutrition.

Yup this is my take as well.

I know some people will frown on me and think I'm not a real supporter or whatever but I can really do without being in the freezing cold surrounded by unhinged douchebags about to fly off the handle at any moment.

Wait, are you telling me that Bayern are forced to let people in the supporter sections for €15 (~ 11 quid) per game (half that for kids), or else they wouldn't sell out every game like they are since 2006?

And like I said above, maybe they think that this improves their bottom line in the end, too. So, if it's "marketing bullcrap", then I'll take that "marketing bullcrap" over English ticket prices (especially those of the club you are glory hunting for).

Oh look, another #BAIDSmetric. By it, every Bundesliga club have a better commercial deal than any EPL club.

Just go to the Emirates.

the extreme naivety is just an act, right?

I think it's more like Barcelona and Madrid where you have to be elected by the members so in return you have to give them stuff. the Barca season tickets are so cheap because a president trying to charge market value will just be voted out. the members have real political power.

I don't give a **** what the underlying reasons are for Bundesliga clubs to charge the prices that they are. I just prefer those prices over those in England and especially ArseLÖL. How does that make me naive?

The clubs and fans are actually in favour of it but it's the 96 groups that are fighting against it happening. They don't get that safe standing (what we call what you guys have in Germany.) would be perfectly fine.

The stadiums aren't falling apart these days and many have been renovated or are (relatively) new.

Celtic where the last club to really push forward for it but couldn't get any place with it.

In the SSE chat, your fellow germans said that if prices where increased, not even to the level that they are in Britain, the fans wouldn't turn up.

You're spot on about prefer the prices that German clubs charge. If they could charge the same price as English clubs without attendances falling they would.

It's naive to think otherwise.

Neither Barca or Real Madrid sell out their stadiums, hence the low ticket prices and season tickets.

People stop going to games in the PL. Ticket prices go down. The demand is too high. When supply (in this case seats) outstrips demand, prices goes up.

Real fans? Ugh.

Sorry, but being a no-talent, no-ambition bum who lacks a rich and interesting life doesn't make you a "better" fan than someone with a diversity of interests and a lucrative career. Would the atmosphere be louder if the stadium was packed with grown men whose lives rise and fall based on the fortunes of other grown men- all complete strangers incidentally- playing a game? Yes. But tickets happen to be in high demand, so you'll need to do more to warrant a season ticket package than merely muck your way through a mindless job all week and then stuff your fat ass into the team shirt on Saturday. This is one of the consequences of living in a society driven largely by financial incentives. But this is also why talented athletes bust their ass to be as entertaining as they are, and talented engineers were assed to invent the massive high-definition plasma television sets that "real fans" are "stuck" watching six games a weekend on when they can't afford a ticket.

I wish it were more feasible for kids to watch games live too, and I think it might even be in the clubs' long term interests as well. But the "real fan" line always grinds my gears...

this is wrong.

they could sell out many many times over at the prices they charge for season tickets. that's why the non-season ticket prices are among the highest in the world.

the reason you see half empty stadiums at times is that season ticket holders cant always be bothered to turn up against Elche in the cup when the club's in crisis because they drawn two of the last five. they can afford to stay away because they got their tickets pretty cheaply.

Yes, real fans. People who actually support the team they are watching.
Roy Keane was spot on when he talked of the prawn sandwich brigade.
A large amount of the people at these games get their tickets because they work for or know somebody who works for a company that sponsors the club/league. These sponsors don't just have their corporate box, they have loads of seats in the ground. They are normally filled with people who think going to football is cool and they really don't know what or who they are watching.

How do you think Barclays manage to give away so many tickets to sold out games each week? I used to work for them and they've got tickets coming out of their ears. They can't give them away quick enough. There was always tickets being filtered down to staff on the High St.

I am not having a go at supporters who prefer to watch from home. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, there's a lot of supporters who are forced to watch from home.

lol, you cannot be serious? So these season ticket holders who don't turn up, just decide to keep them? Rather than give them away or sell them? Seen as the demand is so high?

We've got >10k empty seats, lets charge the highest prices so we don't even sell them! Awesome logic.

barca avg 22k empty seats
real madrid 12k
Bayerns 3k

Wonder if putting the prices up would result in more people turning up and selling the stadium out.

CL games this season
Real Madrid = 25k
Barca = 30k

Last years knock out
R.M = 15k then 8k then 7k

And I got bored.