A bit random but went for my morning run earlier down the local farmers footpaths towards the golf course and as I approach the top of the road a car pulls over and a welsh voice shouts out "excuse me mate, do you know where the entrance is to the golf course?" I pop my head through the wound down window and it's...

Its no way a strawman, you are the one referencing Germans being unable to drink a beer with "flavour" and that its boring.

You are in fact saying its full of flavour but still boring and Germans cant drink flavour full Belgian beers because???????

Also with Keo the water chemistry thing makes perfect sense. I get your point though, but then what are reviewers supposed to say?

Oettinger king of cheap as **** beers. Tastes good enough and doesn't explode a nuke in your head the next morning.

If any of you German LÖLyoungs remember Neptun Dosenbier, holy ****, that **** should be banned as per the Chemical Weapons Convention.

You clearly have an unrefined palate, you plebe!

Haha, never heard of it, elite name though. I'm generally lucky in that I don't get headaches as part of my hangover- but Warsteiner really tests that.

My go to right now for cheap beer is Grafensteiner... 35 cts for a half liter bottle and tastes totally fine

Those beers are all worse than Stella in the market they are in, but given the dynamics of that market I just find those other beers more bland and hence actually better.

Dont mind Kronenberg or any of the other so called premuim lagers so much, Stella is like the dry bumming of beers, its so aggressive and unsubtle and makes you sore afterwards.

Maybe that is what a reviewer could say to be non pretentious, Stella, the dry bumming of beers that leaves you sore.

my bro loved that when he lived in east Germany

Is Stella still 5.2%?

Well, it was called Neptun Pilsener ldo, not Dosenbier. Honest to **** the most vile and disgusting **** you could imagine. Tasted like poison. Felt like poison when it was inside of you. Was cheap as ****, though so we drank it a lot back in the day.

Stella is alcoholic AIDS.

LOL OAFK, you literally stated that my argument was that pilsner has 'no flavor', which is about as obvious a strawman as they come.

Seems like a perfectly fair and reasonable reduction of your argument.

States it is boring, states that anyone claiming it has flavour is claiming the emeperor has new clothes, states germans wont drink Belgian beers coz of the flavour.

Think we are into the massive nit picking backtrackaments here.

You want to say the emperor has clothes.

Uhm, no. I could try to explain it to you but I don't think there's any point. At this point you are basically resorting to 'no u' tactics. Didn't we have an equally ******ed argument about the working class in football or whatever?

Although I think there's certainly a trend towards more hops and American craft beer is certainly at the forefront, I was being facetious in reducing American craft to "add a ****load of hops, in a nutshell". I did it because it's precisely what you do when you dismiss "warm and flat" English ales. Your limited experience probably includes one or two "session" beers, as these tend to be found in many pubs even if there isn't a big choice of ales. These are relatively weak in alcohol content and mild in flavour. This is by design so that they can be consumed several pints at a time in a session. Some session beers are great but they're not going to set your taste buds dancing because by design, that is not what they're about. That's a subtlety that I don't expect a Yanktard to be on board with. Besides that, it's just one of many types of English beer you could come across. And they're not warm; just not chilled.

All your comments about the huge variety and fusions in American craft can equally be applied to the scene here in the UK. The whole debate is stupid because it requires talking in stereotypes that can easily be countered on both sides. Here's a stereotype which I think does fit: You are doing the typical Yankeedoodle trick of proclaiming USA#1 despite being ignorant of what everywhere else is doing.

In conclusion, I am not denouncing American craft beer, just pointing out a couple of things:

1. You're missing out if you dismiss the simple/traditional beers. We do these extremely well in England.

2. American craft beer is not as experimental and revolutionary as you think.

English ales are massively underrated IMO, although I'm by no means an expert. Every time I've tried some I've been very impressed. Much prefer them over boring German pilsners.

With regards to the 'warm and flat' thing, that is a feature and not a bug. It's relatively easy to make a beer drinkable when it's carbonated and ice cold. To take those aspects away and still have it be good is much more difficult.

Warm is so inaccurate though, beers are not served warm in the UK.

When I have frozen my bollox off surfing in Febuary in the UK, I have thought hmmmm, I will go and heat up my core by going and having a lovely warm beer precisely zero times.

Also @thechef, would disagree that Yanks have not experimented a lot with beer, however most of the time this is a massive bug and not a feature.

Anyone reading this page would think it's an international break

It's not even an international break. At least no animals have passed away I guess.

Yes because when people say 'warm' in this context that is exactly what they mean, warm enough to heat up your core.

4.8 last time I had one of them, don't know if they differentiate between draught/bottles/cans like some do

<3 Barolo

Italian reds #1. I am also very fond of the Brunello wines. Could you make a short list with your favorite sub 100 $ Barolos?

Way too easy.

BTW, thats a real strawman.

Yea most commercial beers changed there content to miss tax yardsticks at 5%.

Maybe Stella tastes less like Port Talbot smells now.