So what you are saying is that the rich guy who goes to a game for some light Saturday afternoon entertainment is as much a real fan as the bloke who pours his heart and soul into the game and the team he supports?

You may look down upon these people. That's your prerogative. You may fail to understand why they are more emotionally attached to the team they support than other people. You may not dismiss that these emotions are real, however, and that for some people how their team performs matters more than for others. For whichever underlying reasons.

It's "enjoyment" that we are prioritizing, not money. You lose a lot of the enjoyment of supporting a club when that club is losing games, selling it's highest quality and most entertaining players, and failing in their attempts to bring in new quality/entertaining players. Those factors are tied to the club's financial health, so obviously people take an interest in it. Nobody actually cares whether the owner is earning a profit or going into his own pocket to pay the janitor at the end of the day, as long as the club is doing what we want on the pitch.

I agree that it's worth considering "subsidizing the atmosphere". Atmosphere is an important part of the enjoyment for me.

You're a grown man who, multiple times per week, writes multi paragraph walls-o-text about other grown men who you don't know just because they happen to play a game (in a country you don't even live). With just a little bit of empathy you might be able to put yourself into the shoes of a bloke growing up in Merseyside in a culture that breathes football.

Given the length of the previous posts this seems somewhat relevant:

first link I found googling

but the Barca tickets sold to the general public are on average probably a bit more expensive than at Arsenal.

Explain that difference to me.

It's pretty clearly because the members are in charge.

Support the richest and/or most successful club, then, if it's all the same. Problem solved. Or you acknowledge that emotions, tribalism and (for lack of a better term and 'non-native-speakerness') "belonging to something bigger than yourself" is part of being a fan, and that for some people these things are expressed more than for others, making them "realer" fans than others.

I know precisely why they are more emotionally attached to the team. Focusing on the accomplishments of the strangers wearing their city's name on their shirt is more pleasant than focusing on their own.

I have nothing against anyone for the way they choose to live their lives, so long as they aren't interfering with the rights of others. If you weren't a great student, aren't great with women, don't have many interesting conversations, etc., and you instead prefer to devote your time and energy to sports, that's cool. I obviously devote plenty of both to them as well. And such people certainly provide a better atmosphere than a tourist or some hedge fund dweeb trying to show off.

But I simply don't believe it is a "problem" that such people, who are on RAWK during work and out the door at 5pm on the nose to go to the pub, may only be able to afford to see a game or two per season at the stadium, and are forced to watch the remaining games in high definition on a giant television that they can pause to go get another beer. We live in fabulous, amazing times, and we all get to enjoy what is in my opinion a pretty significant portion of the rewards of those times no matter how little we've contributed to them.

Arsenal have less than 500 from full capacity.

Barca have 22k

Why do they charge so much for tickets that simply don't sell?

I realize I've been rude in the way I've addressed this subject. Let me try to say it less brusquely:

(1) I think it would be objectively "better" if less tourists and hedge fund dweebs attended games. It would be better for the atmosphere and it would provide more net enjoyment to our society (the "real" fans would get more out of the experience, and the 'plastic" fans would get relatively more out of whatever else they found to do).

(2) However.... I bristle at the notion that somehow an injustice is being done. That these heroic supporters are being denied a natural right or something by evil capitalists. That's all. I agree that it'd be nice if more kids and diehards were in attendence.

Wow. How can somebody be so arrogant about something they clearly completely misunderstand.
Sure, there are some people like that who go to football or wish they could afford to go, but they really are a minority these days.

If I replied to your post the way I want to, I'd be snap perma banned.

they do mainly sell them.

They're not stupid. the reason they charge the general public so much is because they can. Go look at the website. There are not that many on offer.

The reason for the empty seats is mostly that the guy who paid £200 for his season ticket cant always be bothered to show up.

I think they can sell them back through the club but will only get back what they paid (so £10 a game or whatev), but Im not sure about that.

That's correct. And if decisions such as this result in an inability to afford tickets some day, I'll have only myself to blame. I could have worked more, studied harder, read something useful, etc. I chose instead to interact with my friends on 2+2, because I enjoy it (although less and less so, which is why I've been taking months off at a time). It's purely a matter of personal utility in my eyes.

I think I've laid out why even a "real fan" pays attention to the financial side of things.....because it impacts the on-the-pitch side of things, which is what he (or she) cares about. My argument is that no matter how much a fan talks about "net spend" or anything else, what he ultimately cares about is the same as someone who only focuses on, let's say, scouting the next opponent or watching tape of a transfer target. We're all interested in the team's performance at the end of the day.

It's pretty cool that Barcelona have tickets available.
I'm going over for the Deportivo game in December. £179 for flights, hotel and match ticket.
No doubt I could get it a lot cheaper if I shopped around for the individual parts, but £179 sounds pretty good to me already.

I've responded in a ****ty way because I think it's arrogant to judge someone else's fandom. As if you don't pass the test of authenticity if you have money or also go to museums.

I'll only add this because I'm sure I'm getting tiresome: for me it's far more offensive to see someone taking utter joy at a bad result for a rival than it is to see a "casual fan" at a game. For me a "real fan" is simply someone who takes joy from watching football, whether they do so every day or a couple times a month. Someone completely absorbed with schadenfreude who still gets giddy talking about Moyes' United tenure is far, far less "real" even if he owns 50 team shirts and can name his team's entire 1998-99 roster.

I think you responded in a ****ty way because you jumped to a conclusion over what I meant by real fan.
Someone who goes to a game to support one of the two teams playing.

There's a lot of people who go these days who, if you asked them who they support, reply 'football'. No, that's not a joke. I've heard it on many occasions.

Lifestyle doesn't come into it.

Nor did any of the national teams you cited as being great yet that didn't stop you using them as an example as how the english game has fallen.

5-0 or 5-1 hardly changes the relevance of my point, that England team was excellent compared to it's opposition so you're just flat out wrong.

European football wasn't the gold mine it is now and numerous Italian teams along with the big two in Spain could easily outbid English clubs for talent throughout the 80's 90s with or without Europe. They couldn't GAF about balancing books at that time.

He moved to a club which had Drogab/Anelka/Malouda all ahead of Kalou, it was a terrible decision on a footballing level but Chelsea were handing out the biggest cheques.

Interesting development - dean hate scousers.

Yes. I've heard and read the term "real fan" used many times in a way that condescends towards people whose lives I admire, and I unloaded a pent up opinion at the sight of it here. That was unfair to you.




EDIT: lol, "Yes" in response to Mr. Peter Blow, not to hating scousers. Although I do find provincialism and local fan exceptionalism to be incredibly lame. I'm from Pittsburgh and we were plagued by the same arrogance (and like all arrogances, it's compensating for something...)

EDIT II: They did drop down a peg in my book with what appeared to be the city-wide response to the death of Mrs. Thatcher. Politics aside, that was just crass.

Bit harsh on carra. Last I checked he was holding a decent job.

Much appreciated Dean, thanks.

This attitude just comes across as you having contempt for working class people and makes you a bit of a **** imo.

Yank here and while obv I know all about heysel and Hillsborough I didn't know it contributed to the formation of the premier League. Someone care to educate an ignorant yank? Thought it was all strictly ££££

i thought taking joy at others misfortune was like 99.95% of the point of being a sports fan

^^^^