The one time you need the press to crucify an England manager.

Why do we need them to crucify him?

This.

Because he is utter utter ****.

There are all these group think claims about positives, lol morans gonna moran.

As I said in another thread, yea we looked better on the ball, but for all that advancement with the ball there was a greater retrenchment off the ball.

Off the ball we were unbelievably terrible yet there is almost no mention of this in the medja's post mortems. The two goals we conceded against Uruguay were comedy, and both the fault of the midfield. Yea Cavani played a great ball, but the play leading up to Cavani receiving the ball was just so shockingly bad. Yet it hardly gets pointed out.

Gerrard might have some ability to distribute but he is not that mobile and he is not great at tackling/intercepting, there is a reason Pool shipped a ton of goals last season, and its not all the fault of the back 4, its because the combo of Gerrard and Henderson is weak defensively. There's a reason Pirlo could basically sit on a chair smoking a cigar and sipping brandy whilst casually spraying a record number of passes around whilst playing England.

We have been woeful this competition if you look at the performances as a whole and its actually made worse in the context of the view that we played better with the ball, because we squandered that positive needlessly by our complete lack of shape and discipline when off the ball.

Woy seems to have no idea of how to build a genuine attacking side in terms of how an attacking positive side plays without the ball, because when we did not have the ball it just looked like a bunch of kick a bout in the park randoms running around without any real ryhm or reason.

WOY OUT.

I'll take Liverpool over Arsenal too if you like.

O.A.F.K is overdoing it, but Hodgson is an absolute fraud. How he's managed to build this reputation as a wise old man of English football despite having had an average career is just incredible, and the media lap it up.

People saying that he should be commended for playing young players are idiots too. He brought Lampard - who was never close to getting on the pitch - and dropping Cole was a terrible decision. Not managing to get Terry back on board should also count against him.

Hodgson has managed the media and expectations perfectly, tactics and the team not so much

My thoughts on the whole JT Cole thing have already been said, our best defence is clearly:
RB Cahill JT Cole.

So from a pure football perspective that is the team that should have gone. Whether or not he tried on the JT front is another matter.

But I don't agree with all the Roy hate.
On another day we draw vs Italy. And either draw or go on to beat Uruguay if Gerrard doesn't do his thing.
At which point we are still very much in it. I disagree with a couple of the selections ignoring the defence ones but don't think we were as bad as we were made out to be and ultimately just fell a little bit short.

england don't want to park the bus with 10 men man

It may seem contradictory, but someone can believe that England weren't that bad at the WC and also think Hodgson is the wrong man. It's not a knee jerk reaction, but a continuation of an opinion held by many since Hodgson was appointed.

Ceire was correct to point out that Hodgson's management of the media and expectations has worked very well for him.

So good he still manages to get you to think I am over doing it.

You are being very range of results orientated against Italy.

Pretty sure our expectation against Italy goes up if we have a manager capable of putting in a system that stops Pirlo being able to play in his slippers and dressing gown and yet totally dominate the MF. See Costa Rica. Its not hard and it does not mean sacrificing any offensive power.

As regards Uruguay, watch the first goal, you will see Gerrard doing his thing again, yea its not as level 1 obvious as the second goal, but its there.

It seems only possible to not hate on Woy if one is not really aware of how terrible we were without the ball and how easy it was for both teams to transition against us.

The exact reason Woy is getting a free pass is because he was able to organise the offense in a way that meant England looked more exciting and dangerous in possession than they have in ages and people are letting that blind them to how utter **** wank we were when not in possession. How bad we were not in possession>>>how good we were with it.

We wont win anything with Woy.

Or if Cahill doesnt let the best striker in the world wander into the box completely unmarked.

We won't win anything without whoever else in charge either.

So how would the media crucifying the manager help to solve these problems you've identified?

It wasn't the manager's fault that Gerrard gave Uruguay two goals. If you're suggesting Gerrard should be dropped, how do you think that would have gone down with the media?

So who is this wonderful manager who will get England winning things?

They've already tried paying bucketloads of money for one of the best managers in the world and look at how that worked out.

+1 to lolling at the fools who think we'd win anything with anyone

I knew people would ignore any discussion and just focus on the win anything comment.

Yea I agree totally.

Lol at the people focusing on a glib comment.

Standard I guess.

I actually typed out a paragraph but deleted it dealing with this. I think most managers would play Gerrard due to ******ed medja pressure, once you are at that point, you then have to compensate for having to play him, just lazily sticking Henderson next to him is not the answer and to me indicated that Woy did not see playing Gerrard any differently than the lol group think medja anyway.

Yea all our managers fail, the whole point I was trying to make is that we have had better managers, Hoddle and Sven imo, who were both utterly bum raped by the medja, now we actually need them to do their duty, they are all hands off (relatively).

In short I wish the medja had been less ******ed with other better managers, but the one time I would actually like them to pile onto a manager they are not.

We wont progress relative to our low standards with WOY.

How about don't make silly comments if you don't want people to ridicule you for them?

My mistake was giving people the benefit of the doubt on how obviously flippant that statement was and not be in a rush to lol lol lol lol look a lazily attackable comment, lol lol lol.

Wont do it again.

Gerrard won't be there in 4 years time.

And let's be honest we probably won't win anything whoever is in charge. I know exactly how terrible we were at times.
I also know that Johnson has lost possession the most of any player at the world cup and baines the second most, leaving us without the ball and out of position a lot of the time.

It's easy to put the blame on the manager for saying he did xyz wrong tactically. But there was also a lot of poor performances especially in the second game that you can't just stick on the manager.

And also who else is there that wants the job, and will do it better?

Sacking Woy just makes no sense what so ever.

This defence isn't the same defence that England have had in previous years. It's not even close. The back 5 are decent enough and are at a similar level to all other nations. Apart from Germany and Irans/Greeces bus'.

The defence can't really be blamed for any of the goals either IMO

First goal should have had another runner, only Sturridge ran to Pirlo. Second one the supply should have been cut out. Okay Cahill/Jag might have done better on that but not many defenders are getting their nut on the final ball. Gerrard was at fault for both goals too, the first what about the 8 guys on Cavani? The cross to Suarez was sensational the header is too. Second I'm not sure what he's meant to do with that either(back 4)?

So out of 4 goals only one could realistically been avoided with coaching with faster closing down. Possibly the 4th, think Hart could save it but he's MMs away from it.

Rooney scores those chances. These fine margins have been the difference in both games. If England got the two draws - coming from behind in both - plus playing the same way. The country is buzzing and you qualify.

Progress has been made from the utter bore, then get destroyed in r16 like last time.

Woy has brought in youth - which have been the best players, if I was an England fan id want too see Shaw in the last game and Barkley starting.

Woy has got rid of a few of the dead wood and probably only took Lampard for experience as this seems to be vital for the media and some fans for some reason.

He could have easily left Sterling, Shaw etc at home and brought and played Cole, Lampard etc and played the exact same way while conveniently using "their too young" bs as an excuse which the media would have eaten up and not hammer him for not taking those players.

The only thing id say is id have tried Barkley > Rooney but it's all well and good for us to sit here and say that.

It must be seen as progress rather than this bs scapegoat stuff that tends to happen after your inevitable failure. Let's not forget that some bookies offered 100/1 on England to win the thing and you weren't even favoured to get out the group stage!

You just did.

Meh, think you are giving him way to much of a free pass on how easy over the 180 minutes of football it was for other teams to control the MF and transition at ease.

I dont want Woy because we have a team, which imo can increase its win EV quite a lot by playing effective attacking football and I just dont think WOY knows how to do that, yes he can make us look pretty on the ball, but thats actually quite easy given the playing staff who are young,dynamic and pacy, all he has to do is make the relatively easy decision of putting them on the pitch.

The problems arise once that decision is made. There is a ton of work to do tactically to make the team robust as possible when not in possession and I see little of that being done. It was obvious we were weak at the back, who's going to provide cover Gerrard and Henderson, cmon.

I dont think England can enter a tourny as close to faves for a long time, but we have a team capable of pulling of a bink with some good amount of run good simply because we should be scoring goals. We need to maximise the bink potential but thats not possible with a team that going to ship goals.

If you want to set up England to grind there way through a group being negative then Hodgson can do that. However at the moment we dont have the personnel for that, we have a young dynamic team that needs to go on the offensive and then try to minimise the downside from its attacking set up, just dont think WOY has close to the skill set to pull that off.

This is the sort of teeth gnashing I was hoping for in the WC thread straight after the game (FU Adrian/Jumanji).

Carry on lads.