Doesn’t count - neither does losing 4-1 to the Bucks with “expert jump shooter” Tatum in 2019, or missing the playoffs entirely with Luka last year.

You guys never care when lebron loses and always have an excuse - he lost 17 of 21 years and you have an excuse for every one...

The only year that you don't blame Lebron is 2011, even though he melted down mentally in 2010 as well, while playing far worse than 22-year old Ant in the 07' Finals..

Lebron also let his team give up in the 2014 Finals for all to see - it was an embarrassment and lesson in brand of ball administered by fossil Duncan - Duncan had all the age excuses that Lebron had the last few years, yet he won by record amount, while Lebron gets swept or misses the play-in.

Lebron also had 7 TO's in the critical 4th quarter of Game 4 that swung the 2009 ECF - he became a 12 turnover-per-48 minute player in crunch-time of that series (last 5 within 5) and had a goat defensive blunder by guarding Courtney Lee instead of his own position (Hedo Turkoglu)...

People laud Lebron's 38 ppg but he was resting on defense against Lee, while Hedo picked them apart.. Lebron was also too ball-dominant at high scoring level to beat a top team, so he really didn't "know how to win" at that time with zero post game or scoring diversity - he was just a "down-hill" player, which isn't 5-man basketball, so it couldn't develop the great chemistry needed for a great-performing cast, aka great team.

And there's countless other losses and debacles such as missing the playoffs in his prime in 2019 or losing with 2 all-star teammates in 2011, 2014 and 2017.. He only won 53 games in 2017 and was massacred with prime Kyrie and Love - that's pathetic.. Of course, Lebron averaged 26 on 35% in the 2008 2nd Round - he was carried by his team's reputed defense - the 08' Cavs were a Year 5 team but only won 45 games until Lebron received the all-star spacing his stiff-arm needed in 2009 to be MVP and have a contender.

That was the season Kyrie refused to play because he was taking a legendary stand for personal freedom - the fact that you use that as an example shows the weakness of your argument and the continuing strength of mine.

And you realize that Kyrie just destroyed 80's Jordan in this series, I mean Ant Edwards, and he already destroyed peak Curry in 2016 to become a champion, so Kyrie is a goat-level player.

Luka correctly made the Finals in the West with Kyrie, while Lebron needed to win a conference that was battered and diluted by in-conference team-ups with 3 franchise players (Wade, Kyrie, Bosh).

The disparity in conference strength is confirmed by prime Lebron being lottery out West in his first season and then getting completely massacred for the last 4 seasons with AD and other teammates with all-star, all-defense, or future HOF on their resume - i.e. it's pretty nice to have a HOF or all-star bench like Westbrook, Melo, Dwight, D-Lo, Bradley, and many more.




Luka made the Finals with Kyrie, which means an MJ/Kyrie backcourt would produce and even more spectacular team - we see how a slight imrovement from Luka and Kyrie defensively improved the team, so Ja goat defender like Jordan would revolutionize the team... There's also the superior strategic capacity offered by Jordan's more diverse scoring skillset, aka off-ball/ball movement/high assist teams/5-man basketball - this superior brand of ball yields the great chemistry required for great-performing casts, aka great teams..

In addition to producing superior brand of ball that elevates teammates, Jordan's skillset and scoring diversity wins the attrition battle.. Specifically, he didn't dominate the ball and the zippy ball movement that his skillset allowed wore down opponent's defenses, thereby leaving less capacity for offense.. For an example of this, just watch the upcoming Finals where Luka and Kyrie shoot like dog **** as the series progresses because they've `been worn down by a superior brand of ball..

You'll see - the Celtics will appear unstoppable in this series and wearing out the Mavs' defense via the zippy ball movement allowed by an expert jumpshooter like Tatum - a guy that can live off pin-downs and quick moves upon the catch - he's like a taller version of Kyrie regarding the quick moves upon the catch, but he can also play closer to the rim and catch the ball spots that pose immediate danger to the defense.

Btw, all of this is based on empirical evidence, aka 21 years of observing the most ball-dominant player ever and therefore not surprisingly, the losingest

Shooting % by distance this year: “Expert Jump Shooter” Tatum vs “Inferior Ball Dominator” Luka

Tatum:
0-3 feet: 74.1%
3-10: 44.1%
10-16: 38.9%
16-3P: 39.7%
3P: 37.6%

Luka:
0-3: 83.8%
3-10: 56.9%
10-16: 44.2%
16-3P: 42.2%
3P: 38.2%

Luka is superior by a truly huge margin at every level of shotmaking than Tatum. Additionally, he does so at a larger volume of “midrange” shot attempts: only 18.4% of Tatum’s shot attempts are 10 feet out to 3P, whereas Luka shoots 23.7% of his attempts from the same distance.

But I expect nothing less from a fraud who has said he has 21 years of observational data on LeBron, yet has also admitted to basically not watching the NBA in 15 years.

Fraudguy smh

I already pointed out to him that Luka has much better shooting statistics than Tatum. He replied once, ignored my follow-up that pointed out the complete nonsense in his reply, and then went straight back to implying that Tatum is the better jump shooter. I am intrigued as to how he handles it this time though.

The ironic thing is, Luka is actually the exact mold of “tough contested shot maker” that he claims to love and is key to winning. Not only is Luka the superior shot maker across the board but he’s also much better at contested jump shots as well. Tatum shoots 52.3% with defenders within 0-2 feet and 48.9% within 2-4 feet, while Luka shoots 57.3% and 52.1%.

He simply has not watched basketball (this is admitted by him) or made any changes to his thinking in the last 15 years or so. It’s like watching a guy use an abacus to do complex math against people with supercomputers and claiming superior knowledge.

Just shows how destructive KD really is. Only Steph could drag his ass to the championship. Look what he turned Devin booker into. And he completely killed Russ. He's like kryptonite.

Tatum can live off pin-downs and quick jumpers on the catch like the one shown above that Luka cannot - Luka needs a live dribble to dominate via jumpshooting, so this more ball-dominant approach yields inferior chemistry than Tatum's juggernaut

Yeah but you're talking about shots off a live dribble, which Luka is superior at (ball-domination), but he lacks the off-ball ability that includes spot-ups, off-screens and quick shots upon the catch (as shown above)...

Otoh, Tatum has everything (ball-domination and also the shots shown above), so he's a true expert jumpshooter, aka he's a great jumpshooter on-ball and off-ball.. Just check their assisted rates - Luka is rarely even assisted by teammates at all.

And my reply to you last time was to point out that Tatum doesn't do that at all. He barely shoots any more catch-and-shoot type shots than Luka does and 90% of them are from 3. The idea that he takes lots of quick midrange jumpers off the catch is pure fantasy. He attempts barely 3 shots a game from between 10 and 20 feet and a very small percentage of them are of the catch-and-shoot variety. The only area that Tatum takes more shots than Luka from is inside 5 feet.

Tatum is predominantly a downhill scorer who tries to takes most of his (2 point) shots from close to the rim while also having the ability to hit 3s off the dribble. Luka is predominantly an outside jump shooter who also scores most off his points off the dribble.

He is one of the best if not the best passer I. The league so I really don't want him running around off ball like Steph. I want him on ball to generate play for his teammates. He creates how many corner threes by throwing to someone not in the corner?

Tatum lover study can't face that Boston is a **** hole and the USa is behind Europe in basketball.

Correct - maybe this nonsense copy paste worked back in 2010 on people before we had advanced shot tracking.

Tatum shoots 2.6 catch/shoot attempts per game, Luka shoots 2.1.

Out of 188 catch/shoot attempts for Tatum, 165 were 3PA.

Luka has superior shooting stats across the board by a large margin. It’s objectively false to state that Tatum is an “expert jump shooter”. He isn’t, not even relative to the NBA, let alone Luka.

at least fraudguy can acknowledge injuries likely costed labron the 2015 championship

Tatum is superior at catch-and-shoots but it isn't just that - he's better a certain types of jumpers like post and triple-threat and one-dribble pull-ups - these quicker scores upon the catch allow superior ball movement and high assist team, while Luka's ball-dominant jumpers hurts ball movement and yields low assist teams

Yeah Tatum's style is just so great for team assists, Boston ranked an incredible 14th in assists in the regular season. That's not all though, they were an unbelievable 24th in passes made per game. Such elite ball movement.

For transparency, Dallas were slightly lower in both categories (17th and 29th) but that's not really the point. The point is that fallguy's narrative about Tatum is pure fantasy that he's making up in its entirety to try to squeeze it to fit his talking points.

Boston was 7th last year in assists, which is about the average for championship teams, while Luka is always at the bottom of the league such as 25th or 28th in the last 3 seasons before this year (19th this year)

But team assists is just one indication - the Mavs have a predictable "down-hill" style that isn't 5-man basketball, while the Celtics are more diverse offensively, so they can have better fits and chemistry.. It takes skill to develop great organic chemistry over time.

2023 Boston (7th in assists) loses to a pedestrian Miami team (25th in assists) in ECF. Trades away and for some players.

Go from 57 wins and a +6.5 net rating 2 seed to an all time regular season team with 64 wins and a +11.6 net rating 1 seed. 14th in assists, beats Indiana in ECF who was 1st in assists.

Perhaps rethink your “indicators”?

People really stretching themselves to find narratives from this playoffs tbh.

D lively > kristpas

Prove me wrong

It’s all based on LeBron hate really.

This version of Kyrie is the Jamal Murray to Luka’s Joker but people want to make it seem like he’s an all-time elite guy to diminish LeBron’s accomplishments.

If Luka wins, he will all of a sudden be a great jump shooter.

When the Mavs lose, will I get flowers for PROVING that ball-dominance is inferior??

Lebron's lottery record on the championship level already proved it, but Luka losing would be the nail in the coffin.

who will step up and give me flowers for SOLVING a major aspect of basketball when Luka loses? What will you guys say about ball-domination then??

Will I get an APOLOGY for getting crapped on for preaching the truth all these years??

Luka can't be a great jump shooter if he can't play off-ball and live off-screens and jumpers that aren't preceded by a lengthy live dribble (ball-domination).

Unfortunately, the ball-domination and "down-hill" skillset imposes spot-up roles and isn't 5-man basketball, so it can't develop the great chemistry required for a great-performing cast, aka great team.

All the ball-dominators fell in these playoffs - SGA, Ant and now Luka.

And everyone thinks Luka will win this series, so how correct will I be when his team gets throttled.. You guys will come with the same sad story, aka "needs more help" (the career story of a ball-dominator).

Remember that Magic/Lebron are 9-10 on the Finals level, so I wouldn't bank on victory for Luka... If Magic and Bron can't be winners on the championship level, than no one can with that brand of ball.

You live in a different world.

Celtics are big favs to win. Not many think Mavs will win. You don't get flowers for picking a favourite. i think the Celtics will win as well.

Luka was a 5th seed, winning as underdog in 3 straight series. Are you giving flowers to him for those 3 series, or the time he beat a 60+ win team a couple of years back. No, none of them count, only the next series. That's of course unless he wins, then it won't count for some other reason.