Concussions: The end of (American) football? - Page 9 - Sporting Events and Fantasy Sports

This is just the kind of non-competitive soft crap which is probably going to kill contact sports entirely one day. For very young players I can understand the concern but for a lot of people football is a way of life. In some towns it's a Really Big Deal and even with the risks involved, there are young people who want to go out and compete in spite of the risk. Just because there's some element of danger to something doesn't mean it should be done away with or sanitized to death.

People seem just fine at sorting out for themselves what risks they feel comfortable with. If you don't want to ball then there's chess club or the debate team. No need to **** up a perfectly good sport like football for everybody else.

I mean, you say "even with the risks involved" as if people actually have any conception of the actual risks, and that this info has been public knowledge and widely disseminated for decades and people "just keep on playing."

Which is LOL

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02-27-2012 , 10:38 PM

#202

JayTeeMe

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I thought you were a libertarian?

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02-27-2012 , 10:38 PM

#203

vhawk01

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Originally Posted by chuckbomb

I honestly don't know. I was being genuine when I said I would love to see the results of a study. My own subjective experience tells me that football is appreciably different from other sports (having played baseball, tennis, and lacrosse, to name a few), but I could be wrong.

Well, I'm not trying to be too condescending here, but your argument is basically "I think that the 'thing I found important to me in my formative years' is important to people in their formative years."

Surely you understand that someone who had a really great experience with a baseball team, infantry group, surgical residency, or frat house, would all say exactly the same thing?

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02-27-2012 , 10:39 PM

#204

vhawk01

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Originally Posted by JayTeeMe

I thought you were a libertarian?

Definitely dont want football banned or anything, I love football, second favorite sport. I love watching these morons mortgage their futures for my entertainment.

I just think its absolutely hilarious that my boss, a trauma surgeon, would probably literally punch me in the face if I told him I dont wear my seatbelt, and yet he wont stop talking about how his kid made the football team, and how great it is, and how excited he is, and maybe he'll play in college.

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02-27-2012 , 10:46 PM

#205

JayTeeMe

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Originally Posted by vhawk01

I'm not seeing the problem here.

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02-27-2012 , 10:47 PM

#206

G NASTY

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Originally Posted by JayTeeMe

I'm not seeing the problem here.

lol

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02-27-2012 , 10:52 PM

#207

grizy

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Football is on top of American sports hierarchies now so it stands to reason the comraderie and socialization aspects of it can be stronger than those of less popular sports (just because less competitive teams play less and are taken less seriously).

The real question is if we, as a society, would be better off focusing our energies on soccer or basketball and making that our favorite sport (I LOVE baseball but it's a rich/rural kid's game... you can't find the real estate for baseball fields in inner cities)

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02-27-2012 , 11:01 PM

#208

chuckbomb

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Originally Posted by vhawk01

Sure, that's not an unreasonable summary of my position.

And if there were a sudden groundswell to ban surgical residencies, fraternities, or baseball, I would expect people with great formative experiences doing those things to speak out against that movement.

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02-27-2012 , 11:05 PM

#209

G NASTY

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baseball is a rich kids sports. the thread that keeps on giving.

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02-27-2012 , 11:10 PM

#210

JayTeeMe

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Originally Posted by grizy

In my experience, the male bonding that occurs on a football team stronger and qualitatively different than what occurs on a baseball or basketball team. I can't comment on sports I never played like hockey or soccer. Probably two elements; One, you're working much more as a cohesive unit, and two, the obvious and present danger. Probably tapping into some caveman part of our brains (which we're beating to a pulp)

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02-27-2012 , 11:11 PM

#211

vhawk01

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Originally Posted by chuckbomb

But you would be unlikely to find their arguments persuasive in the face of evidence that their experiences put participants at massively increased risk of lifelong neurologic damage, right? And if there argument was basically "You wouldnt understand, NOTHING compares to X" you'd think "Hmmm...I mean, I think football is pretty swell, and doesnt cause Y" right?

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02-27-2012 , 11:12 PM

#212

vhawk01

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Originally Posted by JayTeeMe

I'm not seeing the problem here.

Its not a problem, its just an explanation for why his "argument" cannot possibly be convincing to anyone who isnt already convinced. Its special pleading. Its no argument at all.

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02-27-2012 , 11:12 PM

#213

grizy

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I grew up playing baseball in Taiwan. Baseball is barely a team sport but we bonded a lot more than any of the other sports teams just because we had to rely on teammates to make the plays and practice with them.

Even in (nearly) purely individual sports like swimming and diving, bonding occurs between teammates.

It's the level of competition and how much you care about your teammates that drive the bonding. Danger may be an element, but it's unnecessary.

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02-27-2012 , 11:13 PM

#214

vhawk01

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Originally Posted by grizy

Do the people who think baseball and soccer are rich kids sports have like ANY perspective whatsoever? These are the absolute textbook examples of poor people sports.

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02-27-2012 , 11:14 PM

#215

PocketChads

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Quote:

Originally Posted by grizy

there are way more baseball/softball fields in inner cities than football fields

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02-27-2012 , 11:16 PM

#216

JayTeeMe

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Originally Posted by vhawk01

Do the people who think baseball and soccer are rich kids sports have like ANY perspective whatsoever? These are the absolute textbook examples of poor people sports.

They're played by rich people in this country. But yeah, no reason why they'd be any different than football other than kids from ****ty home situations love getting on the gridiron and releasing aggression.

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02-27-2012 , 11:17 PM

#217

grizy

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Originally Posted by vhawk01

Do the people who think baseball and soccer are rich kids sports have like ANY perspective whatsoever? These are the absolute textbook examples of poor people sports.

Soccer is the quintessential poor people sport, I agree.

Baseball needs some space at least to run the bases.

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02-27-2012 , 11:20 PM

#218

chuckbomb

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Quote:

Originally Posted by vhawk01

Hold on though... is playing four years of high school football really putting you at a MASSIVELY increased risk of lifelong neurological damage? (On an absolute scale I mean, not a relative scale. Going from a .0001% chance to a .01% chance, for example, would be a risk I'd gladly assume.) Maybe that's what we're still trying to figure out, but it doesn't strike me as plausible given the number of ex-high school football players I've dealt with.

College football and especially the NFL though, I'll gladly concede you're assuming some brain-****ing risk there. Probably not something I'd want to do, but again, not something I would ever want to see banned.

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02-27-2012 , 11:25 PM

#219

chuckbomb

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Originally Posted by vhawk01

Its not a problem, its just an explanation for why his "argument" cannot possibly be convincing to anyone who isnt already convinced. Its special pleading. Its no argument at all.

Okay, but what else can the pro-football side rely on other than our personal experiences of "football was awesome, and everyone I've talked to who played it agrees?" In other words, what argument would convince you that the benefits were worth the risks?

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02-27-2012 , 11:32 PM

#220

grizy

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Forget the decimals

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...uture-football

"Although estimates vary, several studies suggest that up to 15 percent of football players suffer a mild traumatic brain injury during the season. (The odds are significantly worse for student athletes — the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that nearly 2 million brain injuries are suffered by teenage players every year.) "

And then more damningly, studies are showing even without concussions (or just detectable brain injuries) repeated hits lead to brain damage

http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/resea...nFootball.html

Last edited by grizy; 02-27-2012 at 11:44 PM.

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02-27-2012 , 11:36 PM

#221

G NASTY

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Chuck getting scared?

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02-27-2012 , 11:37 PM

#222

JayTeeMe

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Originally Posted by chuckbomb

vHawk, he's saying the experience of playing football is a different experience than playing other sports. I'm missing the part where he's says it's for everyone or intrinsically better. Different strokes for different folks imo.

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Originally Posted by vhawk01