I support the re-introduction of gladiatorial games, but probably not for kids. Yeah, it's character building and you may form valuable personal connections, but it's arguably too dangerous.

Yes, MikeyPatriot I recognize there is a difference between Football and Baseball. And, i've definitely said that contact sports are dangerous and high risk.

What I don't really agree with is the use of "constant" damage being done. Is almost implying that every time your stepping onto the football field your getting instant brain damage. It isn't uncommon to go a long period of time without taking a substantial helmet to helmet hit. 9 months out of the year football players aren't taking any hits practicing in shorts and t-shirt... and during in season practice they may well be "protected" if they are saving for gameday or no contact drills they do not tackle to the ground. Seasons are short. NFL is the longest. Depending on what position you play and how much you play you can even go games without any kind of significant hit, and factoring how you play... if you play the game correctly use of head should be minimal. minimal...

In no way am I arguing you aren't going to take any hits to the helmet. It is going to happen. But, it is not as constant as you might think if you are playing correctly.

This whole thread is somewhat pointless to talk about because Football as a whole isn't going anywhere. Everyone should know by now it's a violent and dangerous sport. I'm just curious as to how a large percentage of American men that have played football at some point in there life have somehow managed to use their brains.

The 2 most at risk positions imo for repeated hard contact are the RB and LB. The NFL doesn't seem interested in protecting these players because they do not know how without changing the game. Which they've already done a good amount of.

Yesss! arguably... lol

I'm pretty sure o-line is actually the position that has the highest incidence of CTE. You very rarely see o-line take hard helmet to helmet hits but virtually every single play there is some sort of head on collision and these repeated minor collisions seem likely to be more damaging than the less regular harder hit.

No matter how you change the game I can't imagine a situation where the lines aren't going to be colliding in a similar way every single play. If the research does get to a stage where it can say pretty conclusively that that sort of repeated collision has a very high probability of causing brain damage then I can definitely see football dying off. It's not something that will happen quickly, and it's probably a heavy favourite for there still to be a huge professional league in 30-40 years time but as it starts to have a much lower uptake at lower levels the effects will be felt at the top.

Thats why I included the word "hard".. "repeated hard contact". Yes, OL and DL get the most repeated contact but at less speed. I don't know where all this research is coming from, it is sort of a no brainer that repeated helmet to helmet contact and concussions are not beneficial for your brain.

With the amount of money involved it isn't going anywhere. But, probably you could find some percentage of young athletes starting to vere away from the sport due to parental guidance, and even an adolescent's choice from what they have heard through media etc. Not that this would matter much, when their is a different kid frothing at the mouth to start on the varsity football team.

My point was that the "hard" aspect isn't as important as the "repeated". As far as I'm aware (I admittedly haven't studied it in anywhere near as much detail as someone like Tuma) recent research suggests that CTE is caused at a much higher rate by repeated contact at a lower intensity than less frequent hard contact.

If there is ever research that shows beyond reasonable doubt that a high proportion of players are being subjected to brain damage through football, especially if it's occurring at lower levels of the game, no amount of money is going to save it. There's a good chance the game would simply be banned in schools below the college level and the professional game wouldn't be able to survive the huge drop in participation this would cause - at least not in a recognisable form.

I think it's much more likely the game evolves to something resembling more flag football than a full contact.

Something like if you initiate contact with the head at all gets you a flag like holding.

meh i dont know **** about this, i just read deadspin a lot and they have an axe to grind against spoarts

That's just not true. I think the evidence on this subject is showing that your claim is completely false. The sub-concussion hits are where a lot of the long term damage is coming from.

I was watching CNN last night and Dr Sanjay Gupta had a segment on CTE and was talking about HS kids. Tried to find it online and couldn't but found this article about a kid who died playing football. It links to a CNN spot about HS football and CTE. When they did the autopsy on the brain of the kid who died, they found evidence of CTE.

http://yourworldmyviews.com/?p=4903

that stuff makes me sad as ****. died because of a dumb ****ing game, not some freak accident. **** that ****. dumb ****ing way to go out.

**** eveyrone who thinks football teaches you things that can't be taught else where. seriously, **** eveyrone.

lol @ the idea that the average youth football coach has the ability to accurately decide when its right for a player to go back in

lol @ encouraging kids to play through pain (which is totally fine) and expecting them to not hide symptoms of something seriously wrong

lol @ the football cult freaks. you guys are pathetic human beings.

Yeah I don't get the idea that football "teaches" you any more than other sports.

the responses from the "football terrific for kids!" people really support the notion that football causes permanent brain damage.

I played offensive line in college (not scholarship or anything). Interior line play rarely results in getting jacked up or getting your bell rung. The only times i can remember is while playing DLine and tackling running back who lowered their heads. Concussions are fairly rare for linemen afaik. You don't really use your head hardly ever; all the contact is hands, arms, chests and shoulders. How you gonna block somebody with your head?

good thing it's been established by science that "getting jacked up" or "getting your bell rung" are the only things that lead to brain damage

i would imagine some ppl's brain, skull, neck, etc body structure leave them predisposed to concussions. should be some focus on finding ways to predict this.

YOU WOULDN'T KNOW BCUZ YOU'VE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME.

- the cult

+1

I'd like to see the correlation of opinions itt between those who have played and those who have not.

Absolutely if your on the O-line and your playing the game correctly.. your using your hands infinitely more than your helmet. Especially pass blocking as an OT. Your not receiving repetitive shots to the helmet every play... that is NOT true.

sure but you are comparing a winning the powerball type event to winning $2 on a scratch ticket, there must be 100000 concussions in football for every jaw reconstruction as a result of baseball injury

sure baseball has injuries but the truly serious **** your life up when you are 50 are nearly non-existent compared to what football does to people

What I was saying was I never got hit in the head hardly ever except when tackling. In response to a guy who said that RBs and LBs don't take as many blows to the head as OLs.

And what we are saying, for the 10th time, is that you don't need to get hit in the head to suffer severe damage.

Is it just a coincidence that all the ex football players aren't understanding this? I think not.

here are some offensive linemen that have been diagnosed with cte post mortem:

lou creekmur - lions
mike webster - steelers
justin strzelczyk - steelers
owen thomas - upenn

prob just a coincidence though since playing offensive line couldn't possibly cause brain damage

the chargers in specific had an o-lineman get a concussion this year, wobble around, not get yanked from the game, and had a seizure on the team flight home and is lucky to be alive. said it wasn't a big deal and he'll be fine. of course the nfl does next to nothing.

the play that caused it looked harmless too.

Anyone who doesn't see that tuma wins the thread, has lost the thread.

Maybe...I care about very few things, but the things I do care about I'm a little insane over. I've said all I can say about this thread, just wanna leave a philosophical idea...

People, the league, et al, will say that nobody forces NFL players to play, and that they are aware of the known risks associated with the game. Both of these are true. But every person has their price to do almost anything, and it sickens me to think that "these guys have a choice" because they don't.

I'm also a hypocrite for being a fan of the game. But truthfully, I don't feel very good seeing guys get laid out anymore.