Haha, I saw what I needed to see when he was brought into a non-save situation tonight and proceeded to get owned by some guy who would have settled for a single? Never mind, I don't care, but to give a 4-bagger in the bottom of the ninth is pretty bad. Particularly if you're the closer.

Tell me where I said that. Please tell me. I'll give you $500 if you do.

never said you did but i couldn't tell if your post was serious or not.

Maybe I was wrong the 1st time, but I will try again :

I think his post was complete sarcasm

Wrong again, actually

Brad Lidge is the perfect example of why you don't have to be an amazing pitcher to be able to convert 2 and 3-run leads into saves.

You're right. Brad Lidge is awesome. This thread should be locked.

Because sometimes he only has a 1 run lead or no lead

Wow and i thought i was bad at misinterpreting. Jack is basically saying that even though Lidge has been quite atrocious this year, he has still gotten the job done somewhat successfully, which just shows how meaningless the save stat is, as well as the role of "closer"

He obviously should not be brought into high pressure situations. However, as is defined by most people, it isn't his job to be a "fireman." It's his job to rack up saves. In fact, managers tend to use their bullpen to optimize saves for their closers. In this regard, Brad Lidge has done his job fairly well.

In fact, converting a 1-run lead isn't really that hard either...

Witness Shawn Chacon in 2004: 7.11 ERA, 80% save rate.

Yeah but no one is claiming that Chacon is a good pitcher. Lidge, otoh...

Which perfectly explains why he gave up the slammy tonight...because he foresaw the bizarre set of circumstances that would lead to their victory in the 13th inning. Wow, that guy is good.

There can be no denying that Lidge was a great pitcher.

I never denied that he WAS. Key word there. I'm saying that he sucks NOW. He's done.

He may still have the stuff but he's too f'ed up in the head to make any use of it.

Maybe our resident MABL coach/star player can offer some insight.

I don't think he's done; when you take into account the fact that you're using about 36 innings as a sample of judgment and that he's very well aside from 3 meltdown games, it's really hard to make a judgment.

O/T: has anyone done research on the type of pitcher you want as your optimal closer based on how big the lead is? obviously, you want your optimal closer to look like this:

bb/9 k/9 hr/9
0.00 27.0 0.00

but in the real world, say you have two options:

A: 1.0/6.0/1.0
B: 5.0/13.0/0.5

i would argue you're better off with the second guy protecting a one-run lead, and the first guy protecting a three-run lead. (if you don't agree, doctor the numbers a little so you do. and if runners get on base against guy 1, you retain the ability to put in guy 2). lidge certainly seems to fit into category B this year.

thoughts?

Numbers are overrated, it's all about whether or not a pitcher "has it".


And of course, how many saves he has.

I see prohornblower has managed to hack into another account.

So funny how this thread has no posts from 5/26 to 6/26. I wonder why it disappeared? What was Lidge doing during that month? Oh yea, 7 saves in a row, and dropping his ERA two points, from 6.60 to 4.60.

You haters are so hilarious. Lidge is far from done. He's not tipping his pitches anymore and he's fixed his mechanics. He's pitching great again.

He had a bad performance last night. Every pitcher does.

Lidge's ERA by month this season:

April: 6.39
May: 4.15(OMG 4.15 he is awesome)
June: 6.30

I guess though if he can keep his ERA below 3 times what it was last year, he's doing a good job. He has those intangibles that you love to see in a closer. He holds runners well, he has that intimidating glear, and that disgusting little red goatee that so many Astros have.

Umm, way to twist the facts. May is when Lidge's trouble's were at their peak, and when his pitch tipping problem was discovered. Those numbers reflect a horrible beginning to the month and then a sharp turnaround once he was taken out of the closer's role and got his mechanics worked out. How bout looking at the numbers since that time and before last night's game? Lidge was having a damn fine month of June until last night's performance, which is just something that happens to pitchers now and then.
Lidge is back in form, but I don't expect you to know that, since I doubt you watch very many Astros games.

You guys just like to bash the guy given the opportunity. I still think it's quite funny how silent ya'll were when he was tearing it up this last month.

Wait, what? Are those or are those not his numbers for those particular months? I mean, you gave excuses for why he has those numbers (pitch tipping, bad performances, etc), but I don't see how the facts themselves are "twisted" or how your explanations straighten them out or do anything beyond provide more detail on why the numbers suck.

So, you are happy with an 80% save conversion rate?

jvs

If you think Lidge is anything other than an average closer right now, you are deluding yourself.

That said, his stuff is still good, there is no reason he can't perform at an elite level in the future.

Well that's nice that you can point to last night and ignore this one, but this one almost cost Houston the game. I'm kinda glad that they won because it means they'll keep throwing Lidge out there in bad situations for him.

You can't discount Lidge's awful outings and say, hey, except for last night's 4 run blowup, he did fine. Doesn't work that way, biggest.

None of you guys have pitched in the Big Leagues, so please stop trying to assess his value.

You have NO IDEA.