I don't personally know enough about the non-Lidge personnel to gauge this trade myself (though it seems from some quick reading that Houston may be better in the long run), but stop crapping on Brad Lidge. When "a shell of your former self" is still bona fide relief ace, you're still giving up a valuable player.

19 saves and 8 blown saves plus numerous games in which he let the other team back in, I'd hardly call that an ace.

Throughout the year if the Astros had a three run lead going into the ninth the final would be a win by 1 after Lidge gave up two runs but still collected the save.

He's a world of talent with mental problems about how to pitch. I hope the new scenery does well for him.

LOL @ using saves/blown saves numbers to prove your point.

Lidge 2007

3.36 ERA
131 ERA+
88 SO/30 BB (3:1 ratio)
11.x K/9

Real awful numbers there.

I am kind of disapointed we didn't try and deal for a better pitcher out there (santana, kazmir or sign mo rivera) but this is pretty good, and just about as big as you can expect from the phils. However, it puts more pressure on use to sign rowand I think

Dude, can you IMAGINE Philly when he blows a save? He's going down in flames there. He got booed in Houston and that is pretty unheard of in these parts. He's gonna get hit in the head with a battery.

By my count, he had 66 appearences and 52 times he allowed 0 runs. In the 14 games where he surrendered runs, Houston won 6 anyway. How many games could he possibly have "let the other team back into"?

yea but he blew a bunch of saves. plus every time he came in with a 3 run lead it was always down to 1 run.

Question that I could probably get answered by wiki or something: what is the criteria for not getting credit for a save in a non-blown save situation? I thought if you come in with a three run lead and are charged two runs that you aren't save eligible (functioning as a minor penalty, I suppose, like how a batter doesn't get an RBI for a GIDP). Yet multiple times in this thread - which might possibly be the greatest thread in this forum's history by the way - people are citing scenarios where that happened and he apparently got the save. Hmmmmm.

Also, Hoya and hoyasnaxa posting in the same thread is confusing to me. Those two accounts should be merged and they can share a password or something.

Per wiki:

A blown save (abbreviated BS or B) is charged to a pitcher who enters a game in a situation which permits him to earn a save (a 'save situation'), but who instead allows the tying run to score.

Mikey,

I know what constitutes a blown save, but as mentioned I thought there were 'save situations' in which the pitcher wasn't awarded a save even though the team ended up winning anyway. Generally when he screws up and nearly blows things, but I couldn't remember those parameters.

This seems like as good a time as any to re-iterate that the ******ed "Save" stat is ruining baseball.

Seriously. Stop. With. The. Saves. Already.

This whole "every time he came in with a 3 run lead it was always down to 1 run" is BS.

He pitched 66 times. He gave up 2 or more runs 7 times. 4 of those were blown saves, so there's actually 3 times he "let the other team back in the game" in addition to his blown saves. Er...except that one time his team was already down by 4, and another time they were already down by 5. So actually there was one time all season in addition to his blown saves where he "let the other team back in the game". ZOMG PUJOLS BROKE HIS BRAIN.

seriously he is a disgrace to the game what with walking all that much and hitting home runs

plus he's black

hey mosdef long time no see

i was obviously joking. apparently not so obvious. saves suck. lidge is a beast. phillies = champions.

I was off on other message boards, defending Brad Lidge, as that is clearly my life's mission now.

kyleb,

Exactly. Plus as soon as I hit send I started my stopwatch to see how long it takes for RedBean to get here.

I thought you were joking, but just wanted to emphasize the ******edness for people who read you post and think "FOR REAL HIS HEAD DON'T WORK I UNDERSTANDS PSYCHOLOGY!"

If RedBean isn't here within 10 minutes, he's probably perished. I heard he flies around with a cape that says "BB" on the front.

Oops, my bad. I have no idea what guys are talking about when they say a guy comes in with a three run lead and lets up two and doesn't get the save. That's not the rule. People are stupid.

This is the save rule:

(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;
(2) He is not the winning pitcher;
(3) He is credited with at least a third of an inning pitched; and
(4) He satisfies one of the following conditions:

(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches at least one inning;
(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat or on deck; or
(c) He pitches for at least three innings.

I was responding to these.

More fun with numbers:

Lidge had 19 saves. In 18 of those saves he surrendered 0 runs. In the other save he surrendered 1 run. In his saves he had exactly zero saves where the Astros had a three run lead going into the ninth and the final was a win by 1 after Lidge gave up two runs but still collected the save, even though you seem to think this happened "throughout the year".

Life lesson for you: facts are good, ignorance combined with strong opinions is bad. You're welcome. Go forth and prosper with your new found wisdom.

I think Astros fans are probably speaking more from what it was like watching him this year, as compared to 2004-2005. In 2004 and 2005, he pitched with a lot of confidence, and when he entered a game everyone knew it was over. His slider made a lot of batters look absolutely silly. When he came in a game, everyone was confident that he would close it out. Now there just isn't that confidence anymore: he made me more nervous more times this year than any other athlete in sports.

Do keep in mind he didn't record his first save this year until July 17, and he had been promoted back to the closer's role in June. Most of his solid work this year was as a setup guy, not as a closer. There seemed to be a noticeable difference, through much of the year, in his confidence when he came in to close as opposed to when he came in for middle relief.

Yes, he's still one of the best relievers in baseball, and anyone suggesting otherwise is an idiot. I'm definitely going to miss him. In the end, this move made sense because he's a year away from free agency, and the Astros are more than a few players away from contention.

I hope he regains his form as a closer. As someone on another forum I read put it, cheesesteaks + a closer who makes you nervous = heart attacks. And as several other people have said, Phillies fans are a lot faster to boo than Astros fans, and Lidge got booed a few times in Houston this year.

Yes, this is correct. Another reason why the idea of "closers" and "saves" is absolutely effing ******ed. The 7th and 8th innings are just as important as the 9th. I thought he was really effective as what people call a "set up" man. I don't see why the Astros didn't just keep him there.

Years ago Wagner was the closer and Dotel the set-up man with Lidge pitching the 7th. Then they let go of Wags and Dotel became the closer by default for a year and Lidge moved to the 8th. Dotel was shipped off to KC I believe in the Beltran trade, and subsequently Oakland, and Lidge became the closer by default. Now he's gone.

I suppose it'll be either Nieve or Sarfate next year.