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Old 12-28-2012, 01:39 PM   #8276
unicorn_lord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteGoose View Post
Lol you guys are cute

The NHL will never exist again as we know it. This "deal" and "optimism" is exactly what we've seen 5 times during this ordeal and nothing came of it. This season will be canceled, next season will be canceled, and by fall 2014 a new league will be in place.
You just want this so toronto will get a team with a chance.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:44 PM   #8277
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Goose with some tremendous emotional hedging
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:51 PM   #8278
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Vagos View Post
Sooo, this thing is gonna happen in about 7-10 days.

Now, what are the chances the NHL gives us GCL for free this year?
Is it HRR? Zero chance Fehr lets it happen.

If its not HRR, zero chance owners let it happen. Cuts in too much into centerice/gate receipts.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:58 PM   #8279
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Effen View Post
1. Plante
2. Roy
3. Hasek
4. Brodeur
5. Hall
6. Sawchuk
7. Dryden
8. Brimsek
9. Tretiak
10. Broda

/question
Ranking top goalies OAT is impossible because different eras are so hard to compare. Having said that, this is a decent attempt with only one glaring error IMO - Brodeur belongs nowhere on this list. Replace him with Parent is the first thought that comes to me.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:01 PM   #8280
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Nootka View Post
Goalies are tough because of how different eras were. But I'll just ignore that and say...

1. Hasek
2. Roy
3. Brodeur
4. Dryden
5. Plante
6. Thomas
7. Lundqvist
8. Luongo
9. Kiprusoff
10. Beaupre
LMAO. Thanks for the laughs.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:02 PM   #8281
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

OKC is a one line team. The Oilers still have a massive gap in dmen prospects, which I assume translates to OKC.

Schultz is now at 42pts in 29 games. Same with Eberle. Hall is creeping up at 29pts in 21 games.

[ ] was running good
[x] keeping the pace
[x] eberle is the pace setter

Also two guys with the name TJ in the top 14 of AHL scoring. Elite hockey name.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:03 PM   #8282
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Originally Posted by Ketter View Post
Ranking top goalies OAT is impossible because different eras are so hard to compare. Having said that, this is a decent attempt with only one glaring error IMO - Brodeur belongs nowhere on this list. Replace him with Parent is the first thought that comes to me.
There have been people who have normalized SV% similar to ERA+ or OPS+ in baseball. It really wouldn't be as hard as you'd think.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:08 PM   #8283
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Regarding the goalies it goes something like this;


Modern Era

1. Brodeur
2. Roy
3. Hasek
4. Belfour
5. Cujo


Original 6 era

1. Plante
2. Sawchuk
3. Bower


Other eras

1. Tretiak
2. Dryden


So there are 10

Dryden has the most insane record of any goalie ever, like 220-60, but that was lol Montreal 70s.

None of Thomas, Lundqvist, Quick, etc come close to the 5 I have listed in the modern era yet.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:14 PM   #8284
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by cwicemvp12 View Post
There have been people who have normalized SV% similar to ERA+ or OPS+ in baseball. It really wouldn't be as hard as you'd think.
....assuming you could find reliable shot data. i think shots weren't tracked before the early 80's.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:14 PM   #8285
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by cwicemvp12 View Post
There have been people who have normalized SV% similar to ERA+ or OPS+ in baseball. It really wouldn't be as hard as you'd think.
Maybe, would be interesting to see something like that. But the eras are still so different, I'm pretty sure that most modern era goalies are better than anyone who played 50 years ago as they are bigger, faster, better technique etc. Sorting by SV% would be interesting but would still be far from the full story. Even in this ERA, sorting by SV% makes Brodeur look a helluva lot better than he really is.

Shooters are obviously better today, equipment is better, goalies used to not wear masks, the game just looked so different and I would take any comparison between eras with many grains of salt.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:19 PM   #8286
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Ketter View Post
Even in this ERA, sorting by SV% makes Brodeur look a helluva lot better than he really is.
Source?

Pretty lol that a guy can have the most shutouts and wins ever, 3 Stanley Cups, can help his team in ways casual viewers don't even understand with his puckhandling and game calling, and on top of this all he has the bs statsfans stats like a great SV%; and yet he still "looks better than he really is."

Brodeur's the best goalie ever and people who argue otherwise don't know hockey.

The only argument against Brodeur you can possibly make is Roy's 3 Conn Smythes to Brodeur's 0.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:38 PM   #8287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketter View Post
Maybe, would be interesting to see something like that. But the eras are still so different, I'm pretty sure that most modern era goalies are better than anyone who played 50 years ago as they are bigger, faster, better technique etc. Sorting by SV% would be interesting but would still be far from the full story. Even in this ERA, sorting by SV% makes Brodeur look a helluva lot better than he really is.

Shooters are obviously better today, equipment is better, goalies used to not wear masks, the game just looked so different and I would take any comparison between eras with many grains of salt.
I'll find a link, but no it doesn't. Brodeur was average iirc. They adjust it to how much better/worse the player was than league average that year and through the span of their careers.

Edit: http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/0...ery-long-time/
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:41 PM   #8288
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by WhiteGoose View Post
Source?

Pretty lol that a guy can have the most shutouts and wins ever, 3 Stanley Cups, can help his team in ways casual viewers don't even understand with his puckhandling and game calling, and on top of this all he has the bs statsfans stats like a great SV%; and yet he still "looks better than he really is."

Brodeur's the best goalie ever and people who argue otherwise don't know hockey.

The only argument against Brodeur you can possibly make is Roy's 3 Conn Smythes to Brodeur's 0.

Stanley Cups and wins are 100% team stats, using them to make a case for Brodeur is weak sauce. Shutouts (to a lesser extent but still) fall into the same category.

You can start with this article, don't forget to click on the link for part 2.

http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.ca/2...ix-potvin.html

That site has a bunch of other articles on the subject but that's a good place to start and does a good job explaining how Brodeur was in the right place at the right time. Was there ever in the entire history of the NHL some place that made a goalie look better than NJ when Brodeur was there? I doubt it.

I think Brodeur was really good. Perhaps he belongs in the conversation of top 10 all-time but when people say stuff like he is clearly the GOAT ...

In this era, would snap-take Hasek, Roy and Belfour as the top 3. Then I start to think about who I take next and probably end up taking Brodeur and wondering if I made the right choice.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:43 PM   #8289
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by cwicemvp12 View Post
I'll find a link, but no it doesn't. Brodeur was average iirc. They adjust it to how much better/worse the player was than league average that year and through the span of their careers.

Edit: http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/0...ery-long-time/
Please post a link if you find it, I would be very interested!
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:51 PM   #8290
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Lol belfour isn't top 3 modern era.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:56 PM   #8291
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Grunching here, but it's almost impossible to compare goalies across eras. Goalie equipment has changed dramatically, and the standup style is basically nonexistent today. For modern era though, Hasek > Roy > Brodeur
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:56 PM   #8292
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Originally Posted by sylar View Post
Lol belfour isn't top 3 modern era.
He was consistently near the top of SV% leaders during his time. Would have to look deeper to check for biased shot counting, but he's pretty damn good.
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:59 PM   #8293
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Khaos4k View Post
He was consistently near the top of SV% leaders during his time. Would have to look deeper to check for biased shot counting, but he's pretty damn good.
He was good, but top 3 is pretty damn high.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:11 PM   #8294
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Originally Posted by sylar View Post
He was good, cbut top 3 is pretty damn high.
Actually, ya, you're right. He's not a clear #3 like Hasek and Roy are clear at 1 and 2. There are some other guys who are in the same tier as Belfour. Including Brodeur imo. Longetivity is a skill.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:30 PM   #8295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmyBasis View Post
Grunching here, but it's almost impossible to compare goalies across eras. Goalie equipment has changed dramatically, and the standup style is basically nonexistent today. For modern era though, Hasek > Roy > Brodeur
The other problem with a SV%+ stat for old timers is that I don't think it was kept in the 70s, though I could be wrong
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:41 PM   #8296
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Getting a feeling that the lockout will end later tonight
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:44 PM   #8297
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Khaos4k View Post
Actually, ya, you're right. He's not a clear #3 like Hasek and Roy are clear at 1 and 2. There are some other guys who are in the same tier as Belfour. Including Brodeur imo. Longetivity is a skill.
have to reserve a spot for lundqvist ldo.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:19 PM   #8298
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We need to bring back old school goaltending styles and equipment. Watching old video makes me die laughing. The two legged fall backwards and sprawl is elite.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:39 PM   #8299
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

League will consider "tweaks" or "trades" in what has been proposed, but another overhaul won't be received well.
I love this guy
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #8300
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by LimpDitka View Post
Getting a feeling that the lockout will end later tonight
nope. PA has to make a counter offer that the NHL will reject, and there'll be a mexican standoff for a few more days.
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