Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Sporting Events Discussion centered around sporting events.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-16-2012, 06:03 PM   #7651
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

speaking of junior hockey. can we please stop referring to kelowna as a defenseman factory?

thanks.
sylar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 06:05 PM   #7652
Geddy Lee
Good Ol' Canadian Boy
 
Geddy Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Obi-Sean, you're our only hope
Posts: 25,361
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Really? Do the Sarnia Sting and Kitchener Rangers and London Knights and Ottawa 67's not do ok? I ask because Pierre McGuire has taught me that these teams are very important.
Aside from Ottawa, none of the other three really qualify as big Canadian cities, imo.

London's on the borderline but it doesn't really have viable GTA access - Toronto's a good 90 minutes away on the 401, if not more.

The 67's do quite well but it's almost an exception to the rule - they've been an Ottawa establishment for decades.
Geddy Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 06:10 PM   #7653
Bryant Reeves
Pooh-Bah
 
Bryant Reeves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,139
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar View Post
speaking of junior hockey. can we please stop referring to kelowna as a defenseman factory?

thanks.
why?

Kyle Cumiskey, Alex Edler, Josh Gorges, Scott Hannan, Duncan Keith, Kyle McLaren, Tyler Myers, Luke Schenn, Sheldon Souray, Shea Weber

vs luminary forwards such as Mikael Backlund, Jamie Benn, Blake Comeau, Todd Fedoruk, Vernon Fiddler, Chuck Kobasew, Brandon McMillan, Travis Moen, Scott Parker, Vaclav Varada

seems kind of appropriate
Bryant Reeves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 06:30 PM   #7654
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Reeves View Post
why?

Kyle Cumiskey, Alex Edler, Josh Gorges, Scott Hannan, Duncan Keith, Kyle McLaren, Tyler Myers, Luke Schenn, Sheldon Souray, Shea Weber

vs luminary forwards such as Mikael Backlund, Jamie Benn, Blake Comeau, Todd Fedoruk, Vernon Fiddler, Chuck Kobasew, Brandon McMillan, Travis Moen, Scott Parker, Vaclav Varada

seems kind of appropriate
Selection bias. Fun fact: in the 2012 draft there were 21 other defensemen that went before a blueliner from kelowna.
sylar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 06:46 PM   #7655
72off
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
72off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WATZ POPPIIN!!
Posts: 62,115
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

what selection bias?

i just listed all their noteworthy F & D, and they've had a lot more good D-men there

is it possible that the coaching/system there produces good D, or are you saying they use a lot of the picks and resources on acquiring good D in the first place, or what the hell are you trying to say?
72off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 07:48 PM   #7656
Geddy Lee
Good Ol' Canadian Boy
 
Geddy Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Obi-Sean, you're our only hope
Posts: 25,361
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar View Post
Selection bias. Fun fact: in the 2012 draft there were 21 other defensemen that went before a blueliner from kelowna.
Chirping someone for cherrypicking, then attempts a counter-argument by...cherrypicking.

That's some ELIte posting right there.
Geddy Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 07:57 PM   #7657
72off
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
72off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WATZ POPPIIN!!
Posts: 62,115
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

yeah i just sorta assumed that part was a joke by him, but maybe not...
72off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 07:57 PM   #7658
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off View Post
what selection bias?

i just listed all their noteworthy F & D, and they've had a lot more good D-men there

is it possible that the coaching/system there produces good D, or are you saying they use a lot of the picks and resources on acquiring good D in the first place, or what the hell are you trying to say?
It might be true that they produce more defensemen than forwards, but it is certainly does not make them a better defensive development program than sole other place. Maybe they just draft better than other places, or maybe they luck boxed that on the heels of some defensive success they also had other guys in the pipeline.

This whole thing started when people realized that both Keith and Weber are Norris candidates, and that they played together at kelowna. So they went searching for narratives to support that hypothesis. Conveniently ignoring that there were just as many guys from the same roster who didn't pan out, similarly to every other program. There's not a single warm body on defense at kelowna right now. Why isn't the story that they lost their defensive mojo?
sylar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 08:51 PM   #7659
cwicemvp12
Sergei Bobrovsky!
 
cwicemvp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Delaware
Posts: 22,497
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorMuresano View Post
Game 5 what a gongshow. Gordon clearly gets cleaned out on the very same play Malkin scores the OT winner, standard. I tuned into Game 3 for a hot second earlier tonight... long enough to see that the Pens were 1/7 on power plays early in the 3rd period. Simply an atrocity.
Ovie and Backstrom made Malkin their personal ***** all night before he luckboxes the winner in game 5
cwicemvp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 09:04 PM   #7660
72off
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
72off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WATZ POPPIIN!!
Posts: 62,115
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar View Post
...There's not a single warm body on defense at kelowna right now...
says who? they have 1 kid who was a 2nd round pick last year. and unless his position is a typo, they have another D who went undrafted last year that is leading the team with 20g/48pts/+27 in 34gp. at least 4 of their 7 regular D haven't been draft eligible yet, are you projecting that none of them are any good? the team is 23-9-2 this year with a +60 GD, and not many (any?) remarkable looking forwards, so they must be doing something right...

yes the "D-man factory" thing is a narrative, but there might be something to it. idk, doesn't seem like you know either. maybe time will tell.

02-03: Gorges, Keith, Weber
03-04: Gorges, Weber, Cumiskey
04-05: Weber, Cumiskey
05-06: Edler, Cumiskey, Schenn
06-07: Schenn, Myers
07-08: Barrie, Schenn, Myers
08-09: Barrie, Myers

serious runhot, ldo

obv not possible that they have a good program for D or something

Last edited by 72off; 12-16-2012 at 09:17 PM.
72off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 09:21 PM   #7661
Triumph36
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Triumph36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Osi Ukin'-yora
Posts: 40,914
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

severson gonna be the best one of them ldo

also that is a misprint 72off, that guy is playing forward now + point on the power play
Triumph36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 09:23 PM   #7662
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
Chirping someone for cherrypicking, then attempts a counter-argument by...cherrypicking.

That's some ELIte posting right there.
I could cite 2011 draft, or 2010. But those had no kelowna defensemen drafted at all.
sylar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 09:25 PM   #7663
cwicemvp12
Sergei Bobrovsky!
 
cwicemvp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Delaware
Posts: 22,497
You're citing Luke Schenn as evidence of a good D program?
cwicemvp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 09:28 PM   #7664
72off
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
72off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WATZ POPPIIN!!
Posts: 62,115
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

still think there's a fairly good shot he could turn into a decent 2nd pairing guy

regardless, he should have a long pro career, so yeah

(all joking aside for the moment)
72off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 09:29 PM   #7665
SenorMuresano
veteran
 
SenorMuresano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,225
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwicemvp12 View Post
Ovie and Backstrom made Malkin their personal ***** all night before he luckboxes the winner in game 5
I feel like a Vietnam veteran when it comes to that series. It haunts me to this day. I just imagine Ovechkin walking into the slot in OT of Game 3 and flubbing the shot, then I just stare, and stare, and stare....


Spoiler:
SenorMuresano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 09:49 PM   #7666
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

I don't know much about severson, and I am obviously just casualfanning it up while there's nothing else to talk about. But after an unimpressive game by kelowna vs red deer during which defenseman factory was brought up multiple times, it seems like a good hill to die on.
sylar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 09:59 PM   #7667
72off
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
72off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WATZ POPPIIN!!
Posts: 62,115
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

related question: can anyone think of another junior team that has had a run like that recently?

(a legitish NHL d-man per year for like 7 in a row or w/e, not to mention the top end value there)
72off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2012, 11:49 PM   #7668
Triumph36
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Triumph36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Osi Ukin'-yora
Posts: 40,914
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sylar View Post
I don't know much about severson, and I am obviously just casualfanning it up while there's nothing else to talk about. But after an unimpressive game by kelowna vs red deer during which defenseman factory was brought up multiple times, it seems like a good hill to die on.
I think it's silly to think that past results guarantee future performance, but you have to admit that there's been a lot of NHLers coming out of there who play defense. Severson projects to be a professional - whether he is a long-time NHLer is anyone's guess, but without injury he will make his living from hockey for a long time.
Triumph36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 01:31 AM   #7669
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

So, I can only find one prospect page a draft eligible guy from kelowna. I guess if he turns into a Norris finalist before the decade is out, I'll eat my hat.

Quote:
25) Madison Bowey, Defence, Kelowna Rockets (6’1 194 lbs): The Kelowna Rockets defence factory has done it again, churning out yet another potential first round defenceman. Bowey has shown offensive upside from the blue line this year with 9 points in 19 games. Bowey is a strong two way player, who relies on his good speed, acceleration and quickness to define his game in all areas of the ice. He is an excellent puck mover with the ability to rush the puck or to make a strong first pass. He is also good defensively as he has high hockey IQ, reads the play very well, and cuts down passing and shooting lanes. The scouts are once again be off to Kelowna to scout the next big defence prospect they have produced.
sylar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 01:37 AM   #7670
Geddy Lee
Good Ol' Canadian Boy
 
Geddy Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Obi-Sean, you're our only hope
Posts: 25,361
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

LOL that first sentence of the report must've got your blood boiling
Geddy Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 01:52 AM   #7671
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off View Post
related question: can anyone think of another junior team that has had a run like that recently?

(a legitish NHL d-man per year for like 7 in a row or w/e, not to mention the top end value there)
not the same length of time, but over the last 3-4 years, you could probably make an argument for Portland. their d-men get drafted like hot cakes.

and forwards ain't too bad either, eh Geddy?
sylar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 02:08 AM   #7672
72off
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
72off's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WATZ POPPIIN!!
Posts: 62,115
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

i should have specified teams that don't pay players, but w/e...

also yeah a lot of teams can put a good 3-4 year run together no problem, generally that happens when you get a good group together and ride that through their eligibility. then bottom out and re-load to begin the cycle again. it's part of the reason i think Kelowna's 7-year run of having 2-3 good defensemen at a time is so impressive (and more guys if you go further back to the McLaren, Souray, Hannan, etc years).

but re: PWH

ok they have a few guys now who have been picked in the first couple rounds of the draft, but none of them have done anything in the NHL yet so it's hard to say. going back 10 years or so they boast D alumni like:

Mike Sauer, Braydon Coburn, Brendan Mikkelson, Richie Regehr (who also played for Kelowna, lulz)

yup, that's a comparable factory...

Last edited by 72off; 12-17-2012 at 02:26 AM.
72off is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 02:23 AM   #7673
Geddy Lee
Good Ol' Canadian Boy
 
Geddy Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Obi-Sean, you're our only hope
Posts: 25,361
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

**** forwards. I eat forwards for post-drinking 2 am snacks.
Geddy Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 02:37 AM   #7674
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
**** forwards. I eat forwards for post-drinking 2 am snacks.
fair enough. if you don't want them, please leave all your sven bartschis at the door.
sylar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2012, 02:39 AM   #7675
sylar
Ivan Drago's homeslice
 
sylar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Znaroks fan club
Posts: 20,311
Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72off View Post
i should have specified teams that don't pay players, but w/e...
Spoiler:
sylar is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive