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Old 12-06-2012, 08:32 PM   #7226
Bryant Reeves
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by TJay View Post
It will forever be known as the Gomez Rule.
plus the Canucks would prob amnesty Ballard long before Luongo

also he's being traded to Florida for Huberdeau, Gudbranson, & Markstrom as soon as this thing is settled, ldo
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:35 PM   #7227
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by jjshabado View Post
TSN comments have been interesting the last couple of months. Most people I talk to are anti both parties but in general more sympathetic to the players this lockout. TSN comments are overwhelmingly against the players.

Not that I've ever had much respect for the people that write TSN comments.
yeah i actually made the mistake of looking at the comments the other day, and lol, yeah all the top rated ones very anti-players

"i don't make a million bucks, so why should they make a million bucks!?! to play a GAME!!! i'd do it for free, those bastards!"

owners ghana own, and deserve a guaranteed profit

etc
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:58 PM   #7228
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Bryant Reeves View Post
yeah i actually made the mistake of looking at the comments the other day, and lol, yeah all the top rated ones very anti-players

"i don't make a million bucks, so why should they make a million bucks!?! to play a GAME!!! i'd do it for free, those bastards!"

owners ghana own, and deserve a guaranteed profit

etc
My favorite was one something like:

"I didn't see the Players offering 180 million dollars to help the Coyotes. Greedy players just want to take."
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:31 PM   #7229
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

comments on cbc.ca are kinda funny too. the top rated one is always "I don't care anymore, I'm done with the NHL" followed by at least 2 replies saying "but you cared enough to comment on the article!1!1!!"
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:36 PM   #7230
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

always amusing to see Assguy nit it up about some meaningless point

this time taking offense to Fehr's suggestion that they're close to a deal

"no we're not close, this is the 2nd time he's said that now, and i don't know why. blah, blah, blah."

alright kool, who cares?
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:46 PM   #7231
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

This is the opening quote on TSN right now. The bolded is as good an indicator as you are going to get and it isn't good.

Quote:
After a day of CBA talks, the NHLPA tabled a counter offer to the NHL which the league rejected. Addressing the media for the second time tonight, NHLPA executive director Don Fehr said the NHL left a voicemail saying the offer was not acceptable.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:55 PM   #7232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy-Martin View Post
Seeing quite a bit of 'it's not good' on twitter.
Headlines: "Sidney Crosby Fails Hockey Fans Around The Globe"!
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:58 PM   #7233
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Headlines: "Sidney Crosby Fails Hockey Fans Around The Globe"!
"Blames Concussion induced headaches."
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:01 PM   #7234
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"Sidney Crosby- Good Job, Good Effort!"
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:05 PM   #7235
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

btw, if the owners are really gunning for a 10-year deal, then yeah this won't get done until the last possible minute, once they get every possible nickel, dime, and penny out there
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:25 PM   #7236
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

I think they're starting to approach the point of serious irreversible PR damage, w.r.t. future sponsorship interest and eventually gate revenues.

This is such a stupid, pointless disagreement.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:34 PM   #7237
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Bruce Arthur ‏@bruce_arthur

Ron Hainsey: someone from ownership told players Wednesday night that bringing Fehr back into the room "could be a dealbreaker." Amazing.
wow
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:38 PM   #7238
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

I was trolling with that Eklund crap. My original prediction said "tonight" but when I quoted it I changed it to this Friday since there was hype. I haven't made any predictions about the lockout to date, but here is my first one...

I predict that not only will this lockout cancel the entire 2012-13 NHL season, but it will also cancel the entirety of the 2013-14 NHL season. The NHL will be irreversibly damaged to the point it is no longer the world's premier league and there will be few non domestic players left in the league.

Quote that **** sometime around Jan 2014.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:44 PM   #7239
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Grind, not being facetious but what am I supposed to read into that? Like, is that an indication of the owners being stubborn or that Fehr is actually a massive prick to deal with?

I have no clue anymore.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:47 PM   #7240
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

I read it as the owners don't like that Fehr isn't letting the owners bend the players over. I don't think stubborn is the right word. Petulant seems better to me.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:51 PM   #7241
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
Grind, not being facetious but what am I supposed to read into that? Like, is that an indication of the owners being stubborn or that Fehr is actually a massive prick to deal with?

I have no clue anymore.
I take it as this: the owners are a bunch of successful business who have negotiated many a complicated deal before. The players are generally a bunch of rubes when it comes to business, and have people do their negotiating for them. The owners want the players in the room without Fehr because Fehr knows what he's doing and won't let the owners take advantage of the players negotiation-wise. The players didn't like being on their own in the negotiations and wanted their representative back.

Translation: dirty pool by the owners IMO, to take advantage of their superior bargaining ability and deny the players an equal playing field. I fully believe the possibility that the owners were trying to do things like split the players.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:58 PM   #7242
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

well there's still the fact that from what i can tell, the owners still haven't made a single real concession, and that's prob a big problem

like Gary just stood up today and talked on and on about all they've given up through this whole negotiation, how the players haven't given back anything, and the owner's are tired of negotiating against themselves. it just feels idiotically disingenuous, bc while i'm trying not to follow this stuff, i can almost guarantee that Gary is counting "concessions" as where they are from their 1st stupid proposal when talks began, whenever that was.

like even 100% of "make whole", guaranteeing the contracts you signed isn't a real concession. if they wanna pretend like it is, then lol. like would this thing be settled already if the lockout started before free agency, and the teams didn't sign a bunch of contracts they didn't intend to honour? like obv they thought they'd get some kind of rollback again this time with their share going up (they knew they weren't gonna stop until they got 48-52% for themselves, like the other leagues).

and yeah idk if it's right to say that the players/Fehr are being stubborn, petulant, whatever, i'm sure they feel pretty angry, insulted, disrespected, etc in all of this. they're being given nothing, and told to like it, or else. to paraphrase a line, they're being [censored] in the ass, and not even getting a reach around. and yeah there's probably some level or trying to save face here. they knew what this round of negotiations was gonna be all about, them losing big time. it's why they brought in Fehr in the first place, to get something out of this. and it might not end until they do, and the owners' decide that enough is enough and to get on with the games.

Last edited by Bryant Reeves; 12-06-2012 at 10:58 PM. Reason: imo
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:02 PM   #7243
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by <3_Tha_Grind View Post
I read it as the owners don't like that Fehr isn't letting the owners bend the players over. I don't think stubborn is the right word. Petulant seems better to me.
Ya, could be some dissension in the PA ranks too though. Don't know how reliable this columnist is, but his last 10 or so tweets very interesting:

https://twitter.com/adater

Cliffs: Rank and file could have been legit ready to deal this week and Fehr came back yesterday to get involved again and tell them they could hold out and do better. Union prob not as unified right now as we're being led to believe.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:03 PM   #7244
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Of course make whole is a concession. Those contracts were signed subject to an expiring CBA that was already subject to escrow and revenue sharing. If the players expected every dollar of those contracts, they were being stupid.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:05 PM   #7245
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

yeah i wouldn't be surprised if the rank and file are pissed, as 48%, 50%, 52%, make whole, whatever means way less to them than the paycheques do. wonder if the owners are doing like last time and making concession at the bottom (raising the minimum wage, etc) to divide the ranks and win over the plugs.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:09 PM   #7246
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Vagos View Post
Ya, could be some dissension in the PA ranks too though. Don't know how reliable this columnist is, but his last 10 or so tweets very interesting:

https://twitter.com/adater

Cliffs: Rank and file could have been legit ready to deal this week and Fehr came back yesterday to get involved again and tell them they could hold out and do better. Union prob not as unified right now as we're being led to believe.
If what adater says is true, and the owners are detecting cracks in the PA, then it makes perfect sense that the owners would feign storming away from the table and pulling all "concessions" off the table.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:12 PM   #7247
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Of course make whole is a concession...
you know what i mean tho

they signed contracts that they had no intent in honouring, so they created this problem for themselves

especially with RFA's and extending existing deals, when it was totally unnecessary to sign them before the lockout

the UFA's are slightly different, but again it's kinda the same thing. like the Wild owner is almost certainly in the room all "lol yeah like Parise & Suter are really gettin all that money".

can't imagine why there's a lack of trust and good faith among the parties...
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:17 PM   #7248
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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you know what i mean tho

they signed contracts that they had no intent in honouring, so they created this problem for themselves

especially with RFA's and extending existing deals, when it was totally unnecessary to sign them before the lockout

the UFA's are slightly different, but again it's kinda the same thing. like the Wild owner is almost certainly in the room all "lol yeah like Parise & Suter are really gettin all that money".

can't imagine why there's a lack of trust and good faith among the parties...
It's not a semantic point. No contract signed under the old CBA was guaranteed; they all were subject to reduction according to the revenue split. Therefore, the idea that existing contracts have to be honored to the penny is in every sense of the word a concession by the owners.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:06 AM   #7249
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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It's not a semantic point. No contract signed under the old CBA was guaranteed; they all were subject to reduction according to the revenue split. Therefore, the idea that existing contracts have to be honored to the penny is in every sense of the word a concession by the owners.
The revenue split that was at 43/57 and that had salary cap floors and ceilings attached to that. Lol, at not seeing the difference between not getting your contract amount because of not meeting necessary revenue targets that everyone agreed to vs. not getting your contract amount because one party wants to change the revenue targets.

Just because the players should have known they were going to lose stuff in this CBA doesn't mean that losing some-what-less than is otherwise possible is a concession.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:12 AM   #7250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nootka View Post
It's not a semantic point. No contract signed under the old CBA was guaranteed; they all were subject to reduction according to the revenue split. Therefore, the idea that existing contracts have to be honored to the penny is in every sense of the word a concession by the owners.
It was subject to reduction under the old formula and old definitions of HRR. It is a completely different beast when owners locked out and proposed unilateral changes to both the percentages and the revenue.
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