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Old 06-04-2012, 11:47 AM   #576
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

I don't hate this trade for the caps, vokoun wasnt coming back for anything, but its probably good for pitt, unless vokoun wants to be the starter.
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:57 AM   #577
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

He signed for 2 years/$2M per
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:57 AM   #578
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Great, now BB will be paying more for Lu.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:04 PM   #579
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

yeah, vokoun already said he wasn't coming back to washington. so getting anything for him was good for the caps.

Last edited by Nootka; 06-04-2012 at 12:04 PM. Reason: or what sylar said
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:19 PM   #580
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Vokoun has the worst agent in hockey.
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Old 06-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #581
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Originally Posted by Nootka View Post
Is that right? I haven't seen that discussed before and couldn't find it in a quick scan of the CBA. Only thing I saw or have heard is that the team's doctor has to make the determination that a player qualifies for LTIR, which obviously is easier to manipulate (although I agree the Bruins won't be able to do so here).
The CBA is the nut low, but when Alex Mogilny was put on IR in September 2006, the league sent independent doctors to confirm that he was incapable of passing a physical, and that the injury that he sustained was not the one he sustained in the minor leagues the year previous.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:00 PM   #582
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Vokoun has the worst agent in hockey.
Vokoun already fired his agent once. Clearly he wants to win.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:09 PM   #583
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Sick move for the Pens. I'm going to go throw up now.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:11 PM   #584
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

The Pens finally have a NHL-caliber goaltender
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:11 PM   #585
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Originally Posted by sylar View Post
unless vokoun wants to be the starter.
Wat. He is now the best goalie on their team.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:16 PM   #586
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Wat. He is now the best goalie on their team.
yeah, the thought crossed my mind, but fleury is costing the pens $5m in cap for the next 3 years. he is going to get his opportunities in net.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:18 PM   #587
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

and yes, $2m/2 years is pretty damn low. i am sure the words "groin pull" were uttered at the negotiating table.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:38 PM   #588
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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@RogMillions: Told #Flames will not be cap team anymore. In fact, expect them to be around $55M when hockey is played again.
oh man geddy, i feel for you
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:47 PM   #589
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

wow!

i mean, i'm not totally shocked that the Flames can't really afford to be spending $65-70m on players per year, but the fact is they're already at $50.3m right now, and that's with only 8 forwards under contract. so i guess they're down to digging through the bargain bin, or promoting EL players to fill out the roster, if they aren't going to move any big contracts. (but tbf, they do have some possibly decent ones like Baertschi, Nemisz, Howse, Horak, Reinhart, etc)

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=9

Under contract:

F - Iginla, Cammalleri, Cervenka, Tanguay, Stajan, Glencross, Bouma, Jackman
D - Bouwmeester, Giordano, Babchuk, Butler, Smith, Brodie
G - Kiprusoff, Karlsson

RFA:

F - Comeau, Backlund, Aliu, Jones

UFA:

F - Jokinen, Stempniak, Moss, Kostopoulos
D - Sarich, Hannan

edit: wait, so does this mean that Jokinen & Moss are goners then?

looks like the Flames will be who we thought they were next season, another season of no playoffs most likely. yeah, poor Geddy...

Last edited by Henrik Sedin; 06-04-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:58 PM   #590
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That news can't be good for hanging on to Jerome.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:01 PM   #591
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
Vokoun already fired his agent once. Clearly he wants to win.
there are a few teams that could have made the same trade for vokoun's rights with a higher draft pick. he probably made it clear he wanted to go to the pens, and the market dried up.

oh well. i guess thanks to gmgm, the varly debacle worked out to a first, a second, and a seventh.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:06 PM   #592
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Originally Posted by Khaos4k View Post
That news can't be good for hanging on to Jerome.
lol, yeah worst comes to worst trade Iggy for some prospects and a 1st next year, trade Kipper if you can, tank for Nathan Mackinnon and rebuild from there. then again, if Iggy goes, does Cammalleri want to be there anymore either (or Tanguay)? probably not. and JBo is UFA in a couple years...

could be a pretty interesting summer for the Flames.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:10 PM   #593
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

part of the whole Flames cluster****, Jarome has to approve the trade. where do you think he would want to go that can send back significant picks/prospects?
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:18 PM   #594
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

something based around Iginla for J.Staal is something that's always kind of made sense to me. he's not a hotshot prospect, but something they could build around now, and going forward. but then again not sure if Pittsburgh would be comfortable trading him for a winger.

the Rangers also have enough young assets to get a deal done i think, if they still want to add another bigtime winger after missing out on Nash.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:30 PM   #595
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Originally Posted by Vagos View Post
I feel like the media just RAN with that story and created so much speculation that people just started assuming that the only plausible explanation for the Bruins being terrible in the second half of the season was because they were all pre-occupied with what their goalie was putting on his FB wall.
This probably had something to do with it I'd say:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
You don't say?

Nice quote from the Sun-Times xposted in the Deadspin piece: "It's a much bigger thing than some photographs in a 48-hour window." Maybe Grind can attest to this, but my cousins in Chicago kept telling me it's been a problem for a couple years now.

Paging Pegula, Terry?
Meh, Kane is still a fine player. Perhaps it's something that the Hawks are going to pursue. I was more speaking to the inevitable development of a stupid narrative. In the end, I don't know what's going on there so it's probably pointless to speculate.

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Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
This is where the analysis tends to lose me. What constitutes success for these guys in "tougher assignments?" I'm assuming that means they'll be playing against better players. Better players play more often, meaning if you're going to give the bottom 6 guys a bigger role, they in turn must play more often. And if I'm playing Matt Stajan and Blake Comeau more often, on a team that just doesn't score that much to begin with, I think I'm going to run myself into trouble. So why are we playing them against better competition? Because they tend to outshoot the other team's plugs and they need a bigger challenge?
Saying that they may be in line for a bigger role doesn't necessarily mean they have to play every single shift against the other team's first or second liners. It just implies that instead of playing their time against the other team's bottom six, they could be better served taking more shifts against the top six to give the Flames' top line the chance to play against some weaker players during the course of the game.

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Never mind I'm skeptical that they could even play well against better players, because both of those guys have a combined hockey IQ lower than the sum of their jersey numbers, but I'm not even sure they were as good as advertised last year against the 3rd and 4th lines they played against. Watching Comeau especially was akin to piercing your eyeballs with hot needles - he was either wasting offensive opportunities his speed created because of his tunnel vision and hands of stone, or he was taking penalties 200 feet away from his own net. And Vollman kept bemoaning his bad luck on FlamesNation this season - if anything, his 24-goal year with the Islanders is clearly becoming the statistical outlier. You watch this guy waste 2 or 3 chances into the breadbasket almost every night and you understand why he had a 3.6% shooting percentage this year despite firing the 4th most shots on the Flames - he is garbage. That's the last guy I want getting a promotion.
I mean, Comeau had played 245 games before this year and his lowest SH% over a season was 9%. His shot rate is way up over the past few years and his PDO this year was 979 for goodness sakes. Sure, that year with the Islanders is probably the outlier because he is a career 10% shooter, but saying he is garbage because of a one year when everything suggests he'll be much better next year is a bit much. Also, the simple fact is that he was generating offensive opportunities, as you suggested. Sure, maybe they didn't go in this year, but next year they should be expected to start going in at a much higher clip. At least he was actually keeping the play away from his own net, which is very valuable.

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It's great to move the play in the right direction, but you actually need to do something once you're there as well. Maybe if they did, teams wouldn't load up against Iginla night after night. It basically comes back to what we've already known for quite some time - the Flames just aren't that deep.
Well, I think the point is that they may be deeper than everyone thinks, the players just aren't being utilized in the correct ways. If you gave some of the lower guys a few more tougher shifts, it would negate everybody loading up on Iginla. And yeah, the object is clearly to score goals, but it's also to prevent the other team from scoring. It's easier to do the latter when the other team doesn't have the puck which is something that guys like Stempniak have been good at throughout their career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geddy Lee View Post
Alan Ryder's Leafs analysis has two lines that I really like: "Corsi ignores shooting results and is therefore rather tough on individuals with shooting talent," and "Corsi is rather apologetic to those without shooting talent." That's so bang on for me. I mean, people love to discredit the body of work a guy like Kessel contributes, but point-per-game players just don't grow on trees; he's still pretty ****ing valuable to his team.
Well yeah, but anyone doing strict SORTBYCORSI probably isn't doing it right, so I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill here. I think people discrediting Kessel comes from Burke's silly trade, the Toronto fans/media, the need for a scapegoat, etc.

Quote:
I think I'm starting to identify what I find to be a specific problem with this type of analysis; it feels like there's an assumption that the range of talent level found in the league isn't as wide as it really is. As in, there's a belief that you can turn average into above average with only zone start and QoC (Vollman insinuating Malkin's 109 points and Neal's 40 goal season were "all thanks" to their offensive zone start percentage just seems downright silly). I still believe the jump in tiers from league average talent level to above average talent level, and above average to superstar talent level, is pretty damn steep, even in the world's best league. These guys aren't that generic.
Have you seen Moneyball? The point is more to identify guys with undervalued or hidden skills that others seem to overlook - the Flames' bottom six seemingly being an example. Malkin and Neal start in the offensive zone because they are awesome, but people tend to overlook that the Staal line gets all of the tough assignments in the defensive zone which frees Malkin and Neal to get easier starts against lesser players. Malkin is going to be a force whenever he is on the ice, but with the Penguins depth it allows them to (correctly) utilize him to dominate in these roles.

Quote:
And while I was on the topic of the Leafs, Vollman again just refuses to look at context when he's trying to explain Komisarek's troubles, saying "at least [his] poor results can be partially explained by playing in his own zone far more often than he should have been allowed." Yeah, because that's the guy I want to feed at the point for a shot after creating an opportunity. Where else is a "defensive defenceman" going to play? ldo he should've been in the press box, so why not just say that?
Well, Phaneuf and Gunnarsson seemed to have performed competently sending the play forward against tough competition, so maybe give them a few more d-zone chances to lessen Komisarek getting shelled in his own end. Regardless, Komisarek stinks and I think it's more of an indictment of Toronto's defensive depth.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:31 PM   #596
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

JStaal isn't enough by himself to be the center of a Flames rebuild. plus he'll need to be given a raise next season/summer.

no idea on the rangers. i guess Kreider would be involved in some way, and then a pile of picks on top of him?
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:53 PM   #597
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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JStaal isn't enough by himself to be the center of a Flames rebuild.
getting a good, young 2nd line center with possible 1st line potential is a pretty good return for an aging winger. getting a 1st and/or other prospects, roster players, or whatever on top too would prob be nice for the Flames. not sure what roster players the Pens would be willing to give up, or that the Flames would want though.

Quote:
plus he'll need to be given a raise next season/summer.
the biggest issue there is that he'll be UFA, so the Flames would likely need some assurance that he's willing to sign there, or be allowed to make a deal with him before the trade is finalized.

Quote:
no idea on the rangers. i guess Kreider would be involved in some way, and then a pile of picks on top of him?
well the story was that they wouldn't give up Kreider, Stepan, MDZ, or McDonagh for Nash, so i kinda doubt they would for Iginla either. but the Rag$ have plenty of other young assets (but Tim Erixon prob wouldn't be part of the offer this time, lol). well, maybe they could get MDZ or Stepan, who knows.
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Old 06-04-2012, 02:53 PM   #598
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The Pens finally have a NHL-caliber goaltender
And he'll be on the bench
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:46 PM   #599
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Originally Posted by Henrik Sedin View Post
getting a good, young 2nd line center with possible 1st line potential is a pretty good return for an aging winger. getting a 1st and/or other prospects, roster players, or whatever on top too would prob be nice for the Flames. not sure what roster players the Pens would be willing to give up, or that the Flames would want though.



the biggest issue there is that he'll be UFA, so the Flames would likely need some assurance that he's willing to sign there, or be allowed to make a deal with him before the trade is finalized.



well the story was that they wouldn't give up Kreider, Stepan, MDZ, or McDonagh for Nash, so i kinda doubt they would for Iginla either. but the Rag$ have plenty of other young assets (but Tim Erixon prob wouldn't be part of the offer this time, lol). well, maybe they could get MDZ or Stepan, who knows.
1st-2nd C is nice and all, but the flames are going to rely on JStaal getting major unsheltered minutes without much help. possibly even lots of PK time. without much depth in the organization at any line or position. so expect his points to take a nosedive. on the plus side, he is just coming into his prime though, so they would get him on right side of a career arc, and his injuries are probably not a big deal. BUT, it's a contract year before his first UFA. if he played for the pens, he could easily command $7m+/per next summer. calgary would have to sweeten the pot considerably to secure him long term. that seems to run counter to Flames' salary cap comments.

iginla's trade value is somewhere between a star quality rental, and a reputable captain who could sign a 3-yr extension at a discount if you are good enough to be a contender for several years. i dunno, tampa makes sense kinda. there's a bunch of norfolk kids who could probably crack the flames' roster next year for pennies.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:39 PM   #600
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
The CBA is the nut low, but when Alex Mogilny was put on IR in September 2006, the league sent independent doctors to confirm that he was incapable of passing a physical, and that the injury that he sustained was not the one he sustained in the minor leagues the year previous.
Thanks, I didn't know that. Surprised this didn't happen with the Caps and Poti this year. Or maybe it did and was just never reported.
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