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Old 06-03-2012, 05:42 PM   #551
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Originally Posted by boozebag View Post
Cam and Chia privately tried to get him to change his mind for months prior. I highly doubt that caused any major problems, but it's definitely possible that it pissed off both sides.

I definitely agree with you on the media circus though. Casual fans definitely didn't care, and real fans already knew he was a Republican so it wasn't any shock. No one gave a ****, but the media just kept shoving it down our throats because they wanted it to be a big deal.
So why are you saying he'll be traded, possibly MORE likely now? It makes no sense. He's not playing next year. It has nothing to do with the Bruins. Sure, Cam and Chiarelli might have been pissed. Who cares? How did it affect what happened on the ice? And most importantly, what reasons did Thomas have to be so mad at them that he would refuse to play for the Bruins organization next season?
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:48 PM   #552
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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So why are you saying he'll be traded, possibly MORE likely now? It makes no sense. He's not playing next year. It has nothing to do with the Bruins. Sure, Cam and Chiarelli might have been pissed. Who cares? How did it affect what happened on the ice? And most importantly, what reasons did Thomas have to be so mad at them that he would refuse to play for the Bruins organization next season?
If you have someone you know isn't playing on the last year of their contract, wouldn't you move them if you could? You're giving too much credit to other desperate GMs. I still don't believe this is 100% set in stone that he is out. Does it seem absurd some team without a goalie wouldn't try to snipe TT for ten cents on the dollar? Get his rights then work out an extension. You don't think Chia would seriously consider any offer he got for him right now?

I've already said I believe Thomas isn't playing for family reasons. I don't remember ever saying that Thomas isn't playing because he hates the FO or anything of that nature.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:50 PM   #553
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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I want to focus on this part because I'm curious what occurred that indicated the team didn't support him or that they distanced themselves from him?
iirc they jumped right out and like you said indicated that they were disappointed in him, that his views didn't reflect those of the Bruins, ownership, etc. they sort of hung him out to dry, and put him out there all by himself. seems like he was pretty naive about how big a story making a stand like that would be, and didn't appear prepared to cope with it (regardless of what he said, and how it wasn't a distraction, or w/e). the talk was that he wasn't happy that the team didn't seem to back him at all, or his teammates really. now maybe that's all wrong and it's 100% a media created storyline and these leaked rumours are incorrect, idk.

at the very least, it did seem like a massive distraction. you can blame the media all you want, but he was pretty stupid to think that going out of his way to snub the President as the GOAB star of the team wasn't going to blow up.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:51 PM   #554
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

A team trying to reach the salary floor should trade for him, since the cap hit will count and they won't need to pay him.

BUT WE ALL KNEW THAT.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:56 PM   #555
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Guys, he could still retire. We haven't even officially hit the true offseason yet.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:57 PM   #556
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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iirc they jumped right out and like you said indicated that they were disappointed in him, that his views didn't reflect those of the Bruins, ownership, etc. they sort of hung him out to dry, and put him out there all by himself. seems like he was pretty naive about how big a story making a stand like that would be, and didn't appear prepared to cope with it (regardless of what he said, and how it wasn't a distraction, or w/e). the talk was that he wasn't happy that the team didn't seem to back him at all, or his teammates really. now maybe that's all wrong and it's 100% a media created storyline and these leaked rumours are incorrect, idk.

at the very least, it did seem like a massive distraction. you can blame the media all you want, but he was pretty stupid to think that going out of his way to snub the President as the GOAB star of the team wasn't going to blow up.
Again, "the talk" here is just pure speculation, I believe? Maybe I missed some stories that actually cited team unrest, pretty sure it was just a bunch of people seeing the Bruins play falter and flinging all their White House theories at the wall.

I will grant you that it's possible it affected him mentally and the reason his play suffered, I just refuse to buy into this locker room falling apart aspect. No one else on the team should care. And like I said, he might have been irked by the brass not 100% saying he's right that Obama sucks (Seriously, what else could they have done to fully back him?).

But how does that translate to him refusing to play for the Bruins next season? And if it did, why would he make this sort of Family/Faith big public statement as a backdoor way of being traded? Just doesn't make much sense to me. Like Triumph said, Thomas is a lot of things but he's not insincere.
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:59 PM   #557
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Guys, he could still retire. We haven't even officially hit the true offseason yet.
If he retires, do we get the cap relief?
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:00 PM   #558
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

I believe so, yes.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:03 PM   #559
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

He should just retire and if he really wants to come back just un-retire
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:08 PM   #560
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

yes Vagos, i've admitted it's just speculation that could be wrong. but there were def stories that came out about unrest within the room over this and Thomas' BHness, and iirc they were from fairly trustworthy journalists like Elliotte Friedman, Bob McKenzie, or something. if i remembered the sources i might try to dig up the stories (but then again they might have been on TV anyway), but idk, and frankly, i don't really care about Thomas all that much. i'm very willing to wait & see how this all plays out.

re: 35+ contracts

The "35-and-Older" Clause:

When a player aged 35 or older signs a multi-year contract, his average salary is counted against the team's salary cap during every year of the contract, even if the player retires before the contract is up.
If the player is sent to the minor leagues, his cap hit is reduced by $100,000.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:13 PM   #561
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Thanks for the clarification. I was thinking about Rafalski but ldo he didn't sign his last deal after he was 35.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:14 PM   #562
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Whatever, just have to eat the $5m cap hit I guess. I don't hold out much hope for the B's acquiring a big name this offseason anyways, but maybe they will surprise me. They can put Savard on season long injured list again and use what space they have to sign Tuukka to a long term deal. Other than that, depending on what happens with Chris Kelly, it's probably going to be a 3rd line forward, pray Horton is healthy, and you're looking at mostly the same team as the last two years.

*Crossing fingers that Dougie Hamilton makes the NHL squad next year*
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:27 PM   #563
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Boston is in an interesting spot wrt the cap. i mean obv with the Thomas situation priority #1 is getting RFA Rask signed, and possibly to something long-term. that could easily cost $2.5m+, and if he uses all of his leverage lookout. might be interesting to see if another team might ship him an offer sheet.

$1,567,043 — $3,134,088: Second-round pick
$3,134,088 — $4,701,131: First and third-round pick


other than that probably not much wiggle room, unless they want to trade some contracts. yeah Savard will probably be LTIR (has he retired, or has he left a window open for another comeback?) to open up some room, Pouliot is RFA, and Kelly, Campbell, Corvo, Zanon, & Mottau are UFA. so have some depth spots to fill. and sign or promote another goalie, obv. filling the roster might about eat up the remaining cap space.

other business is talking to the guys going into the last year of their deals, as you're allowed to start re-signing those guys on July 1st as well. Horton, Ference, and of course Thomas are UFA in 2013, Horton will be especially interesting what with his injury problems. they might want to wait and see how he recovers, but then he might want to explore his options in July 2013 if they wait too long. then there's the fact that Seguin, Lucic, & Marchand are all RFA in 2013. will Lucic take a pay cut from his current salary? will Seguin have a breakout year and require a massive contract? which Brad Marchand will show up next year? will any of these guys get re-signed this summer?
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:35 PM   #564
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Considering what other goalies have been paid, rask for 2.5m/yr would be insane value.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:37 PM   #565
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Everything I've read/heard is that Campbell is all but gone. Seeing Paille and Thornton get re-upped for $1m+ makes me think it will be a cheap veteran for one year or a young guy filling in his spot.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:39 PM   #566
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Originally Posted by AcTiOnJaCsOn View Post
Considering what other goalies have been paid, rask for 2.5m/yr would be insane value.
yeah, i mean given this:

$1,567,043 — $3,134,088: Second-round pick

i'd probably start by asking for ~$3.1m/year, regardless of term, if i were him.

(depending on what RFA compensation looks like in the next CBA)
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:43 PM   #567
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

I don't see Pouliot returning and probably not Kelly either. Campbell, I'd think they will make an effort to bring back. Corvo, Zanon & Mottau all probably gone. If McQuaid returns healthy, and Hamilton makes the club, they're ok at D. Torey Krug too!

I have a feeling that once Marchand goes RFA again, he's gone, but that depends what kind of year he has next season I suppose. They need guys like Jordan Caron and Jared Knight to develop and be top 6 or top 9 forwards sometime soon, other than that, they don't have much in terms of forward prospects. If they lose Seguin to free agency, I'll cry.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:46 PM   #568
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

FWIW, Neely has reiterated many times that they think Rask is going to be an elite goalie and that he will be their guy going forward. Getting him a long term will be their top priority I think.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:18 PM   #569
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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A team trying to reach the salary floor should trade for him, since the cap hit will count and they won't need to pay him.

BUT WE ALL KNEW THAT.
Wouldn't this be the most obvious thing to happen here for Boston? IF TT really does sit this one out, why wouldn't they deal him to a team trying to make the floor? I'd be surprised if there weren't teams out there already circle jerking over this angle shoot.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:29 PM   #570
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Here's a little light reading for the offseason.

Quote:
Player Usage charts show how players are used and how they performed at
even-strength by mapping the percentage of shifts they started in the
offensive zone against the average quality of their competition, as measured in attempted shots, with sized and coloured bubbles denoting how well the team performed with them on the ice relative to everyone else. Every chart includes supplementary thoughts from expert analysts.
http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:20 AM   #571
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Interesting read, thanks bigd.

A couple points from Rob Vollman that caught my eye in the Flames analysis:

Quote:
...secondary players like Blake Comeau, Lee Stempniak, and Matt Stajan consistently outplayed the third and fourth liners they faced and could probably handle tougher assignments.
This is where the analysis tends to lose me. What constitutes success for these guys in "tougher assignments?" I'm assuming that means they'll be playing against better players. Better players play more often, meaning if you're going to give the bottom 6 guys a bigger role, they in turn must play more often. And if I'm playing Matt Stajan and Blake Comeau more often, on a team that just doesn't score that much to begin with, I think I'm going to run myself into trouble. So why are we playing them against better competition? Because they tend to outshoot the other team's plugs and they need a bigger challenge?

Never mind I'm skeptical that they could even play well against better players, because both of those guys have a combined hockey IQ lower than the sum of their jersey numbers, but I'm not even sure they were as good as advertised last year against the 3rd and 4th lines they played against. Watching Comeau especially was akin to piercing your eyeballs with hot needles - he was either wasting offensive opportunities his speed created because of his tunnel vision and hands of stone, or he was taking penalties 200 feet away from his own net. And Vollman kept bemoaning his bad luck on FlamesNation this season - if anything, his 24-goal year with the Islanders is clearly becoming the statistical outlier. You watch this guy waste 2 or 3 chances into the breadbasket almost every night and you understand why he had a 3.6% shooting percentage this year despite firing the 4th most shots on the Flames - he is garbage. That's the last guy I want getting a promotion.

It's great to move the play in the right direction, but you actually need to do something once you're there as well. Maybe if they did, teams wouldn't load up against Iginla night after night. It basically comes back to what we've already known for quite some time - the Flames just aren't that deep.

This made me laugh too:

Quote:
On defense Chris Butler surprised everyone by playing on the top unit with Jay Bouwmeester, but the duo hardly set the world on fire.
I wonder why. Was I the only person in the world who saw just how much Bouwmeester had to babysit Butler? It was so ****ing depressing by the end of the season and you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to see it either.

I'm glad David Moss got some props though, he made a big difference when he returned to the lineup and for my money, he's probably one of the most underrated two way players in the league.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:43 AM   #572
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

Alan Ryder's Leafs analysis has two lines that I really like: "Corsi ignores shooting results and is therefore rather tough on individuals with shooting talent," and "Corsi is rather apologetic to those without shooting talent." That's so bang on for me. I mean, people love to discredit the body of work a guy like Kessel contributes, but point-per-game players just don't grow on trees; he's still pretty ****ing valuable to his team.

I think I'm starting to identify what I find to be a specific problem with this type of analysis; it feels like there's an assumption that the range of talent level found in the league isn't as wide as it really is. As in, there's a belief that you can turn average into above average with only zone start and QoC (Vollman insinuating Malkin's 109 points and Neal's 40 goal season were "all thanks" to their offensive zone start percentage just seems downright silly). I still believe the jump in tiers from league average talent level to above average talent level, and above average to superstar talent level, is pretty damn steep, even in the world's best league. These guys aren't that generic.

And while I was on the topic of the Leafs, Vollman again just refuses to look at context when he's trying to explain Komisarek's troubles, saying "at least [his] poor results can be partially explained by playing in his own zone far more often than he should have been allowed." Yeah, because that's the guy I want to feed at the point for a shot after creating an opportunity. Where else is a "defensive defenceman" going to play? ldo he should've been in the press box, so why not just say that?
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:46 AM   #573
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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A team trying to reach the salary floor should trade for him, since the cap hit will count and they won't need to pay him.

What an excellent loophole. Can you trade a retired player?
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:44 AM   #574
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

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Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
Has to be verified by league doctors. The Bruins cannot get off this hook with claims of injury.
Is that right? I haven't seen that discussed before and couldn't find it in a quick scan of the CBA. Only thing I saw or have heard is that the team's doctor has to make the determination that a player qualifies for LTIR, which obviously is easier to manipulate (although I agree the Bruins won't be able to do so here).
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Old 06-04-2012, 11:19 AM   #575
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Re: NHL Offseason 2012 Thread

vokoun's rights to the pens for a 7th

jfc shero is sharp
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