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Old 10-16-2012, 07:24 PM   #5476
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Meraxes View Post
I would like some hockey please.
There you go.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:40 PM   #5477
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

GL and other Canadians,
It's not lost on American nhl fans that without Canada, nhl doesn't exist.
most nhl fans love canada
It's fun to lolcanada, but 100% with love

Nice to see some bargaining movement, but still a long way to go.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:58 PM   #5478
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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It's fun to lolcanada, but 100% with love
While I def think that's true for everyone ITT, I feel it is not with love for other SE regs
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:02 PM   #5479
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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While I def think that's true for everyone ITT, I feel it is not with love for other SE regs
there are other se regs?
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:03 PM   #5480
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

what is this "SE" you guys are talking about?
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:04 PM   #5481
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Yeah, nice shot of excitement, but the more I read the less I think players accept this.

That 50/50 thing is sooo good for the league. "Look, we're meeting halfway. Why don't they accept?" etc.

Proposal has 5 year term limits with no more than 5% yearly variance. Trying for the NBA formula.

Entry level contracts are 2 years, arbitration eligibility from 4th year to 5th.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:12 PM   #5482
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

what? i read that ELC will be 4 years, but arbitration stays.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:33 PM   #5483
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Triumph36 View Post
geddy: yeah, well i didn't read it as anti-americanism as much as pro-canada-ism. i think canadians of all stripes, at least the sense i get on the internet, have a hidden but fiercer patriotic streak than americans. i mean the american anthem is goddamn impossible to sing, but still, no one's joey mossing out on it during sporting events - not like canada during playoff games.
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yeah well Canadians care more about hockey than anything else (sporting-wise anyway, but generally speaking perhaps as well), so what do you expect? i don't see it as a patriotic thing, but a hockey thing. Canadians don't want their hockey team to win bc they love Canada and/or hate the United States, it's bc they really, really, really like hockey.

but even still, it's not like the vast majority of people outside of Winnipeg could really gaf if the Jets were playing the Hurricanes in the playoffs. sure they might prefer if they win, and be more likely to watch the game than if it was Canes/Capitals, but other than that not much of a difference.

i mean, i'd probably get more jacked for a series against Calgary than Chicago...
It's a weird paradox. I've never understood people up here who say "well, I'm cheering for the last Canadian team left." I tell people all the time how dumb they sound when they say that. I would've had one leg dangling off the bridge if the Canucks won two years ago. But yeah, the anthem is an easy way to get the crowd riled up into a frenzy, just like in Chicago; don't think it's much different than that. I swell up with pride when I hear the anthem but I have no disillusions about any type of "us vs. them" complex. There are players of all nationalities on every team and my favourite team isn't contingent on nationalism.

Having said that, even though I have no real attachment to Winnipeg, I was ecstatic when the Jets returned. I'll be ecstatic when the Nordiques return. Hindsight is obviously 20/20 and it was never a guarantee that our dollar would've recovered as dramatically as it has, but there are a lot of us who've always been adamant that these markets foster the right environment for success; watching this league run headfirst into two work stoppages because they're running an unsustainable business model - which is their own doing - is maddening as hell.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:01 PM   #5484
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

My new favorite part of this thread is when Goose said all of Canada was rooting for Edmonton and Calgary when they went to the finals.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:03 PM   #5485
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Bruins beat writer:

Quote:
Joe Haggerty
‏@HackswithHaggs
One player I spoke w/after NHLPA conference call said "Nov. 2 might not be a realistic date" to start NHL season. "We'll see." #lockouttalk
Quote:
Joe Haggerty
‏@HackswithHaggs
Players' sense was it might take a little more time to get deal done, but hope was there was flexibility w/November start date #lockouttalk
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:06 PM   #5486
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Geddy, sorry about the story with your dad's company, but is not unique to Canada. Plenty of American businesses went broke under new management. It's a self imposed crutch, just like the "oh well, we were victims of our weak dollar in the 80s-90s. not like we could do anything about it" inferiority complex.

It's strictly business. There are inefficiencies in the market, and franchises/factories/jobs move because of this all the time. Hell, Canadians are buying ALL the american milk from a costco somewhere across the border from Surrey because of the weak American dollar. Some people are upset that they can't buy milk, but Costco is laughing all the way to the bank. No one feels inferior because of it over here.

They also wouldn't feel inferior if all American franchises were eliminated from the playoffs, or if the national team lost to honduras 6-0. gj;ge.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:23 PM   #5487
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

My apologies, the actual footy score was 8-1.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:09 PM   #5488
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by AdamSchwartz View Post
My new favorite part of this thread is when Goose said all of Canada was rooting for Edmonton and Calgary when they went to the finals.
I remember walking out of a Hooters after Game 6 with the biggest grin on my face knowing that Calgary just got robbed of the Stanley Cup.

To be honest I do remember quite a few casual fans with that sentiment "Might as well cheer for the last Canadian team" during Ottawa, Calgary, and Vancouver's years.

I'm pretty sure CBC and TSN create this idea, much like Norman Chad and ESPN create the buzz around "The last woman standing" at the WSOP.

Yes I realize I just compared Canadian hockey teams to female poker players.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:07 AM   #5489
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by sylar View Post
Geddy, sorry about the story with your dad's company, but is not unique to Canada. Plenty of American businesses went broke under new management. It's a self imposed crutch, just like the "oh well, we were victims of our weak dollar in the 80s-90s. not like we could do anything about it" inferiority complex.

It's strictly business. There are inefficiencies in the market, and franchises/factories/jobs move because of this all the time. Hell, Canadians are buying ALL the american milk from a costco somewhere across the border from Surrey because of the weak American dollar. Some people are upset that they can't buy milk, but Costco is laughing all the way to the bank. No one feels inferior because of it over here.

They also wouldn't feel inferior if all American franchises were eliminated from the playoffs, or if the national team lost to honduras 6-0. gj;ge.
I don't think you're really catching the grasp of what I'm saying here. I get that economic circumstances can dictate relocation and restructuring; I was talking about situations with subsidiaries where the prevailing attitude was "we know better and we'll do it better because we are better." That's not a crutch and that's a problem we've had to deal with for years.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:35 AM   #5490
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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what? i read that ELC will be 4 years, but arbitration stays.
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
1. Entry level would go from 3 to 2 yrs. 2. Salary arb eligibility would go from 4th to 5th yr. 3. UFA goes 7/27 (service/age) to 8/28.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:14 AM   #5491
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Originally Posted by TJay View Post
I remember walking out of a Hooters after Game 6 with the biggest grin on my face knowing that Calgary just got robbed of the Stanley Cup.

To be honest I do remember quite a few casual fans with that sentiment "Might as well cheer for the last Canadian team" during Ottawa, Calgary, and Vancouver's years.

I'm pretty sure CBC and TSN create this idea, much like Norman Chad and ESPN create the buzz around "The last woman standing" at the WSOP.

Yes I realize I just compared Canadian hockey teams to female poker players.
That's hilarious
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:05 AM   #5492
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A PA rep or two say the NHL is changing the definition of HRR.

NHL says "no we're not. Here's our full proposal as proof!"

http://www.nhl.com/ice/m_news.htm?id=643570

Logan Couture tweeting that he must have missed the league releasing all the info from their first proposal. Love it.

PR battle is exactly what the fans want....
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:38 PM   #5493
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Some highlights from the proposal that was posted on NHL.com

2012-13 salary cap: $59.9M
No roll back of salaries
HRR still to be defined clarified, likely staying the same

ELC of 2 years
UFA at 28 years old or 8 seasons

5 year contract limit
Maximum 5% increase or decrease in salary from year to year in a contract

Last edited by Khaos4k; 10-17-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:38 PM   #5494
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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Originally Posted by Khaos4k View Post
Some highlights from the proposal that was posted on NHL.com

2012-13 salary cap: $59.9M
No roll back of salaries
HRR still to be defined clarified, likely staying the same

ELC of 2 years
UFA at 28 years old or 8 seasons

5 year contract limit
Maximum 5% increase or decrease in salary from year to year in a contract
sorry, I got most of that, but ELC?
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:44 PM   #5495
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Entry level contract.
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:47 PM   #5496
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khaos4k View Post
Some highlights from the proposal that was posted on NHL.com

2012-13 salary cap: $59.9M
No roll back of salaries
HRR still to be defined clarified, likely staying the same

ELC of 2 years
UFA at 28 years old or 8 seasons

5 year contract limit
Maximum 5% increase or decrease in salary from year to year in a contract
lol at this. escrow is still there, so players salaries are still reduced in the event the league does poorly (most likely because of the lockout).

the owners don't really care if they rollback the huge salaries or if they just reduce everyone's paycheck by X% as long as X% of league-wide payrolls is at least as large as the rollback they want.

Spoiler:
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:57 PM   #5497
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

yeah i don't really get where they're going with that, or why.

if you're giving up 5-7% and the cap is going down, you're giving up money somehow, whether it's in the form or rollbacks or escrow payments that you end up losing.

do they think there's a possibility that revenue will increase to the point that they'll get that escrow money back or something? any financial experts wanna chime in here?
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:07 PM   #5498
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

if this CBA offer ends up as the framework of the new deal, then i am real curious about the ELC clause.

seems like guys who just signed 3-year ELCs just got pwned. Malcolm Subban probably did ok though, because lolGoalies. everyone who is already playing on their ELC deal just lost a year of RFA to arbitration and a year of UFA to RFA. which could be huge for guys like Nugent-Hopkins, Subban, Landeskog, O'Reilly, etc.

eberle ends up giving up just 1 year of UFA instead of 2 for the big money. hall ends up giving up just 2 years instead of 3. so they made out ok.

shea weber may be the biggest winner, with that much signing bonus he is lockout-proof.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:16 PM   #5499
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

I think the owners deal is more than fair. I like 5 year maximum contracts.

I just do not understand how NHL players deserve NFL and NBA type contracts. You have no TV revenue and are gate Driven. Players are greedy in my opinion. This type of contract should protect us from the idiot owners. Heck Even the Minnesota GM turned into an idiot owner with those two last signings
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:18 PM   #5500
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Re: Bettman Lockout III Thread (aka NHL Offseason: Now & Forever)

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shea weber may be the biggest winner, with that much signing bonus he is lockout-proof.
Salary caps and lockouts do not exist to one Paul Holmgren.
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