speaking of junior hockey. can we please stop referring to kelowna as a defenseman factory?

thanks.

Aside from Ottawa, none of the other three really qualify as big Canadian cities, imo.

London's on the borderline but it doesn't really have viable GTA access - Toronto's a good 90 minutes away on the 401, if not more.

The 67's do quite well but it's almost an exception to the rule - they've been an Ottawa establishment for decades.

why?

Kyle Cumiskey, Alex Edler, Josh Gorges, Scott Hannan, Duncan Keith, Kyle McLaren, Tyler Myers, Luke Schenn, Sheldon Souray, Shea Weber

vs luminary forwards such as Mikael Backlund, Jamie Benn, Blake Comeau, Todd Fedoruk, Vernon Fiddler, Chuck Kobasew, Brandon McMillan, Travis Moen, Scott Parker, Vaclav Varada

seems kind of appropriate

Selection bias. Fun fact: in the 2012 draft there were 21 other defensemen that went before a blueliner from kelowna.

what selection bias?

i just listed all their noteworthy F & D, and they've had a lot more good D-men there

is it possible that the coaching/system there produces good D, or are you saying they use a lot of the picks and resources on acquiring good D in the first place, or what the hell are you trying to say?

Chirping someone for cherrypicking, then attempts a counter-argument by...cherrypicking.

That's some ELIte posting right there.

yeah i just sorta assumed that part was a joke by him, but maybe not...

It might be true that they produce more defensemen than forwards, but it is certainly does not make them a better defensive development program than sole other place. Maybe they just draft better than other places, or maybe they luck boxed that on the heels of some defensive success they also had other guys in the pipeline.

This whole thing started when people realized that both Keith and Weber are Norris candidates, and that they played together at kelowna. So they went searching for narratives to support that hypothesis. Conveniently ignoring that there were just as many guys from the same roster who didn't pan out, similarly to every other program. There's not a single warm body on defense at kelowna right now. Why isn't the story that they lost their defensive mojo?

Ovie and Backstrom made Malkin their personal bitch all night before he luckboxes the winner in game 5

says who? they have 1 kid who was a 2nd round pick last year. and unless his position is a typo, they have another D who went undrafted last year that is leading the team with 20g/48pts/+27 in 34gp. at least 4 of their 7 regular D haven't been draft eligible yet, are you projecting that none of them are any good? the team is 23-9-2 this year with a +60 GD, and not many (any?) remarkable looking forwards, so they must be doing something right...

yes the "D-man factory" thing is a narrative, but there might be something to it. idk, doesn't seem like you know either. maybe time will tell.

02-03: Gorges, Keith, Weber
03-04: Gorges, Weber, Cumiskey
04-05: Weber, Cumiskey
05-06: Edler, Cumiskey, Schenn
06-07: Schenn, Myers
07-08: Barrie, Schenn, Myers
08-09: Barrie, Myers

serious runhot, ldo

obv not possible that they have a good program for D or something

severson gonna be the best one of them ldo

also that is a misprint 72off, that guy is playing forward now + point on the power play

I could cite 2011 draft, or 2010. But those had no kelowna defensemen drafted at all.

You're citing Luke Schenn as evidence of a good D program?

still think there's a fairly good shot he could turn into a decent 2nd pairing guy

regardless, he should have a long pro career, so yeah

(all joking aside for the moment)

I feel like a Vietnam veteran when it comes to that series. It haunts me to this day. I just imagine Ovechkin walking into the slot in OT of Game 3 and flubbing the shot, then I just stare, and stare, and stare....

I don't know much about severson, and I am obviously just casualfanning it up while there's nothing else to talk about. But after an unimpressive game by kelowna vs red deer during which defenseman factory was brought up multiple times, it seems like a good hill to die on.

related question: can anyone think of another junior team that has had a run like that recently?

(a legitish NHL d-man per year for like 7 in a row or w/e, not to mention the top end value there)

I think it's silly to think that past results guarantee future performance, but you have to admit that there's been a lot of NHLers coming out of there who play defense. Severson projects to be a professional - whether he is a long-time NHLer is anyone's guess, but without injury he will make his living from hockey for a long time.

So, I can only find one prospect page a draft eligible guy from kelowna. I guess if he turns into a Norris finalist before the decade is out, I'll eat my hat.

LOL that first sentence of the report must've got your blood boiling

not the same length of time, but over the last 3-4 years, you could probably make an argument for Portland. their d-men get drafted like hot cakes.

and forwards ain't too bad either, eh Geddy?

i should have specified teams that don't pay players, but w/e...

also yeah a lot of teams can put a good 3-4 year run together no problem, generally that happens when you get a good group together and ride that through their eligibility. then bottom out and re-load to begin the cycle again. it's part of the reason i think Kelowna's 7-year run of having 2-3 good defensemen at a time is so impressive (and more guys if you go further back to the McLaren, Souray, Hannan, etc years).

but re: PWH

ok they have a few guys now who have been picked in the first couple rounds of the draft, but none of them have done anything in the NHL yet so it's hard to say. going back 10 years or so they boast D alumni like:

Mike Sauer, Braydon Coburn, Brendan Mikkelson, Richie Regehr (who also played for Kelowna, lulz)

yup, that's a comparable factory...

**** forwards. I eat forwards for post-drinking 2 am snacks.

fair enough. if you don't want them, please leave all your sven bartschis at the door.