This has to be like the weakest evidence ever, right? At least taken in isolation. You'd have to show that the league was equally adept at scoring during Jordan's career as it is during Kobe's (and specifically in regards to individuals capable of putting up huge PPG). It might be true, but without that proof this is almost 100% meaningless. It sucks for Kobe that Iverson exists. Kobe has been the "best scorer in the NBA" more often than twice, I'd bet, but lost the scoring title to Iverson because he takes so many shots on bad teams.

Yes, Jordan

Plus I'll name 2 there are more

Wilt Chamberlain
He was basketball's unstoppable force, the most awesome offensive force the game has ever seen not Bryant.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
When he retired no NBA player had ever scored more points, blocked more shots, won more MVP awards, played in more All-Star Games, or logged more seasons then Jabbar.

I'd say that being far and away the premier scorer of your era is a pretty good argument for saying that MJ should be considered a better scorer. He scored more efficiently, he scored more absolutely, he scored more relative to the league he played in. That's pretty damning.

lol, I don't really disagree with anything you said. I think the point has already been made previously in much more detail that Jordan's PER and shooting is much much better than Kobe's. I'm just highlight the fact that when you look at career accomplishments it isn't just the extra 3 titles that Jordan has, he is light years ahead of Kobe in many other areas as well.

Also of note; Kobe has never lead the league in scoring (PPG) when he didn't also lead in shots attempted.

EDIT: Actually that last thing isn't really "of note" because its pretty standard. Can we just pretend I didn't post that.

EDIT2: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jordami01.html vs.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...bryanko01.html

really isn't close at all. Kobe has never lead the league in win shares above average. Jordan did 8 times. Jordan: top 5 in the league in steals: 9 times. Kobe: 2. Jordan lead the league in PER 7 times, second 3 times. Kobe has never been in the top 2. If Kobe started next year playing significantly better than he ever has and maintained that for 5 more years we could have a debate about it until then hes been one of the best players in the league for the past decade and is an incredibly fun player to watch. Good for him

Jordan's efficiency and Jordan's defense are just so much than Kobe's ever was or ever will be. And he had no hand checking rule. It isn't close.

In this era, two players were definitely better: Duncan and Shaq. I'd personally rank Garnett ahead, too, but I know that's an argument few will agree with just because the T'Wolves sucked so bad due to management and Garnett's lack of "killer instinct" (fair enough debate).

Magic was also undeniably better, many could argue #2 all time. Kobe will eclipse Bird just on longevity.

That rapist will never be better then Jordan.

Where will he rank? Edited in a poll. Feel free to extrapolate for James. I'd assume 5ish titles, another MVP, similar production til say 34.

not above the king

See its when people say things like this that you lose all credibility. Never? What if he average 50 ppg for the next five years?

He'll be rated higher by the majority of people out of SE than alot of the Kobe haters here think he will or want him to be and he'll be rated lower by alot of people than some of the Kobe fanboys here expect him to be.

Clark, please temp ban me anytime I post in this thread again after this post.

Having a discussion with Kobe haters/fanboys about Kobe seems about as much fun as having someone kick me in the nuts. Repeatedly.

C'mon though. Suggesting an extreme like that also costs credibility.

I think that by "never", people are saying "not unless something totally unforseen comes up". And by that they mean "has to at least scrape some of Jordan's best statistical years", which seems unlikely given Kobe's age.

No, I think this thread is perfect for you. This thread without you is like the Argue about all things Barry Bonds thread without redbean.

He'll need to do that and win championships in those years and its not going to happen.

ballhog

True when all will be said and done LJ will be better then Kobe.

For the record, I voted #7.

I think he has virtually no chance of surpassing the following:

Jordan
Chamberlain

I think he has very little chance (though it's possible) of surpassing the following:

Jabbar
O'Neal
Magic

I think he's a "best fit" in the following group somewhere

Bird
Hakeem
Duncan
Lebron
Russell

I split the difference, gave him the benefit of the doubt and called it #7. I don't at all think it's "hating" to suggest he's barely in the top 10. Those are some big time names and it gives him full credit for being better than David Robinson, Oscar Robinson, Malone, Garnett, Barkley, etc.

How does Lebron's defense rate overall? I can't imagine it's too bad. By adjusted +/- and DRtg he helps his team on the defensive end, and they're already a pretty good defensive team.

Lebron isn't quite as efficient a scorer, but he's still pretty efficient for a guy that scores over 30 a game. I don't care how he does it, but he does. Plus he's a much better passer and rebounder.

That said, if Kobe could play all the time like this playoff run he'd be very close to the GOAT.

The fact that he started out with "the rapist" makes me less likely to believe he meant what you've got in quotes here.

If Lebron could hit 80% of his FTs instead of 70%, I think that one little thing would make a big difference. And yes, it's "only" one ppg basically.

I think Lebron is a favorite to be better than Kobe by the end, but such a long way to go. He's what, 23?

It's been said a million times, but if LeBron ever gets any kind of legitimate help, he's going to be so filthy. The efficiency should go up a bit with that and some jump shot improvement (like, for real, get on that this offseason). I can't wait to watch it whenever it all comes together.

Probably. When things end up needing an "argue about all things X" thread, I tend to become immune to some of that stuff as it's kind of implied by the fact that we got to this point.

This is at least a better discussion than Bonds, which was kind of a time waster.

Hard to believe he is actually a favorite in this...what are the chances for significant injury? Cant be much less than like 20% or so right? Thats a huge hit right there.

Dunno, he's built like a brick ****house.

He's already got two PER seasons better than Kobe's best. I don't love that stat, but it's handy and an easy cop out here. And he really is getting better still. I don't personally like him for whatever reason (can't put my finger on it like I can with Kobe), but man, he's the truth.

I only speak the truth, he's going to need to win at least three championships to be in the same league as Jordan and as I said before thats not going to happen.

when people suggest things like this they lose all credibility.