Remember, even though it doesn't take into account the Capela signing, it also doesn't factor in the potential Melo signing either which would effectively cancel out any bump in wins from adding Capela, thus making it accurate as is.

KD is permanently shook over the reception of his move to GSW. I just love it. Well deserved.

Doubt anyone that dealt for him was dying to give him 4/120 when Millsap just got 2/60. That's the best comp you can get for him for recent transactions IMO. I guess the Blake Griffin deal, but pretty much everyone agrees that move was horrible. Only reason LAC got off it was because they found a desperate team, Cle may not be so lucky.

If I were Indiana I'd probably like my chances to allocate the 30mill better in 2019 FA rather than have an aging Love. Maybe for a year Love is > than the alternative but any good GM gets more value out of 30m. But they did just spend 7m a year on McBuckets so maybe not?

This isn't really true since he is already under contract. If he were a FA and they gave him that deal then it would be true.

But he had 1/24 left on his deal (I think we all agree he opts out next offseason) and I think he nets more in return at 1/24 than his new deal, where a team is making a major commitment to an aging/declining player.

I'd deal Love at 1/24, get a pick, tank. That's the move. So I think anything else is sub-optimal. They were in a certain position with that deal, now they're in a worse position with it. Therefore it is a bad deal.

Well THJ/Moz and other bums getting 15-20m's in FA happened because of massive cap spikes over the last 3 years. While the cap is going to continue to go up, nothing like that is ever really happening again.

8th men will not be making 15-20% of the cap going forward.

Also, 1 thing people seem to say a lot is that cap space is going to be plentiful next year. But it really isn't. It's mostly just the Lakers and rebuilding teams will have cap space, none of which seem to be ideal suitors for Love.

Pacers and Jazz will have cap space as well but it isn't going to be anything close to a 2016 style bonanza. Those days are over for the mid-low end FA's. Superstars and all stars making 35-45m a year instead of 20m is going to take a lot of $ from those mid-tier guys going forward.

Your second paragraph is the whole crux of it. I know you think that you would, everyone always likes to think that they would. But they don't. 7m for McBuckets is what you get (I also have no problem with that signing). Everyone drastically overrates what player you can get for what $ in FA, and therefore calls the majority of signings bad.

Yea scratch that post I was still talking about next off season, when the extension kicks in. Right now I would trade a first for Love. And I'd prefer him now that he has the extension than I would at just 1/24.

EDIT: and third paragraph is goal post shifting IMO. We've all only been talking about whether the Love contract is good or not in a vacuum AFAIK. I'm not in love with the decision to extend him either, but GIVEN that they want to keep him, they've got him on slightly favourable terms is the argument.

Normally I agree that a team like the Pacers probably can't use 30m in cap space very well, but a 31-34 y/o Love isn't a very high threshold to meet.

Umm, if anyone cares Duncan and Leroux killed the deal! I know seadood will be interested in that tidbit.

I don't see how it is goal post shifting. They were in a certain position and it got worse by overpaying an aging/declining player on a long-term deal.

I think it is bad in a vacuum as well though. And your Indy comparison is kinda goal post shifting because Indy is probably 1 of 3-4 teams in the league that you could maybe make the argument that Love is a good fit for. Solid, mid-tier contending type team that isn't going to bottom out and get worse but doesn't have a ton of capacity to get better because they're a small market team that can't attract FA's.

If you're gonna argue the Love deal is good then it is possible it is good for an Indy/Utah/New Orleans type of team that has to try and gamble to significantly improve their lot.

And even then, if you got 30m in cap I feel like you can do better. For instance I'd go Julius Randle at 15-18 over Love at 30 from 2019-2023.

OG, Val for J Butler? Who says no?

Tor is already kinda all-in on this season with Kawhi.

Probably Toronto, if Kawhi leaves Jimmy will too and then they won't have the pieces to rebuild. Also, they are short on big men, not wing players. Adding Jimmy would only marginally improve their offense and defense from the starting lineup since it would mostly be taking possessions away from Lowry and Leonard and OG is a pretty damn good defender too. It would obviously help the bench lineups since you could always have 1-2 of the big 3 on the floor at the same time.
Raptors would also be left with 0 post defenders. Kawhi would be their best by far and they would be relying on Ibaka + wing defenders for rebounding.

Look at the teams you're trying to beat in 2018 though, do you need post D beyond say Ibaka? (GS, Celts, Phi, Hou) Only philly really poses problems for you on that front.

Obviously it would be a huge gamble but perhaps the move that would put Tor over the top. Tend to agree they say no before Minn but Masai really could say screw it. Maybe a deadline deal if Kawhi/Green are healthy and Tor is humming rather than a move you make before you see how good you are.

I just meant it was goalpost shifting in the sense that I don't think the argument has been around whether or not Cavs keeping Love or not, but rather whether he's worth 4/120. At least that's all I've been arguing about. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume a situation where you're actually trying to succeed when considering the merit of a contract. If you wanna say "Love isn't worth 4/120 because Cavs should be tanking" then fine, you're probably not wrong, but that doesn't really have much to do with how much Love is actually worth.

Last part is back on track with the Randle bit. Fair enough. I guess we just disagree on how good Love is, that's cool.

I don't think he's worth 4/120 from 31-34 y/o either way. But I really don't think he is worth that for Cle is how I'd sum my opinion up.

However, I do think if Indy/Port/NO/Utah could sign him outright then they probably should. Especially since they will probably blow the $ on bad deals anyway (McBuckets, Solomon Hill, Evan Turner, Dante Exum)

Toronto's starting offense might actually get worse as you don't have big man to run the PnR as Ibaka only really picks and pops and his shooting is inconsistent.

With one year on his contract, he is more of an expiring contract that you use to take on a longer deal and rent out 2019-2020 cap space. You would maybe get something like Hassan Whiteside and a couple of second-round picks; or Nic Batum, MKG, and a couple of non-Charlotte seconds that the Hornets have picked up; or Joakim Noah, Lance Thomas, and a lottery-protected first.

Toronto says no. They are not going to trade OG or Siakam for a possible rental. If Kawhi stays, those are the young players whose cheap contracts help you build around Kawhi. If he leaves, they becomes the young players you start to build around.

I think an ideal pre-extension deal for Love would've been like top 5 protected 2021 1st, E Turner, M Leonard for Love.

Cavs pickup a potential really good 1st from Port, take on some bad contracts while they're tanking and Port gambles that Love can help get them out of rd 1.

3kola already better than Love.

LOL at Neil Olshey ever "gambling." He is craven and incompetent.

lol Melo. lol Morey.

In the real world, I think that pick is lottery-protected, maybe top-20 protected.

trading away an asset for useless players on bad contracts should net you more than a lottery protected 1st. Trading away Leonard+ Turner into empty space should net the receiving team a 1st and a couple 2nds or 2 mid-late 1st round picks. Add Love to that deal and you would need an unprotected 1st in a few years where that pick has a chance to be something special.

We didn't get Kawhi to the 76ers but Kawhi to the Raptors is kind of intriguing. I think Lowry and Kawhi could have some pretty good synergy.

Another team that can strive to be best in the East.

Another story line.

They are The North.

Melo is coming in so cheap it would be hugely lol to Morey having an issue with starting him.

Greg Oden returns to the court tomorrow for Scarlet & Gray against the upstart Primetime Players. Right after Jimmer Fredette takes on a bunch of the Fort Wayne Mad Ants

#TBT