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1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team 1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team

07-13-2012 , 12:09 AM
its funny how underrated jordans athleticism is nowadays. People bringing up pippen as the second most unique athlete to play in the league..haha. Jordan was just as good of an athlete as lebron, probably more but was just 2 inches shorter. oh, and 92. And if you drop off magic and bird pick up gary payton and say reggie miller its a real blow out.
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 12:12 AM
Chicago fans continue to suck
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
Id give '12 the edge but it's b/c of Lebron, CP3, and Durant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
No one on '92 can slow down CP3, Bron, and KD. Bron would punk Jordan inside and KD would stroke over him with ease. Cp3 wouldn't break a sweat tearing stockton apart.

'92 has pretty big advantage up front and more depth, but loldepth.

Bron and KD can play 40 mins easy.
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 01:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
No one on '92 can slow down CP3, Bron, and KD. Bron would punk Jordan inside and KD would stroke over him with ease. Cp3 wouldn't break a sweat tearing stockton apart.

'92 has pretty big advantage up front and more depth, but loldepth.

Bron and KD can play 40 mins easy.
jordan and pippen could guard any two of those 3 (I'd put pippen on kd, just like he guarded magic in the finals). and I think you're forgetting durant weighs 2 bills.

so there wouldn't be any matchup problems for the '12 team on the defensive end?
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolando Blackman
he (magic) couldnt guard his own shadow tho
so magic couldn't do an equal or better job of stopping russel westbrook than chalmers did in the Finals this year when rwb went apesh*t and okc still lost?

stopping point guard penetration is one of the most overrated aspects of effective team defense.

pg penetration is a given in basketball. that is one of the main aspects of the position and it is built into the game of basketball like paying the blinds is in poker.

only a handful of athletes in the history of the game were athletic enough to consistently stop super-quick pg's like chris paul or kevin johnson from getting in the lane. literally, only mj, lebron, scottie, maybe two or three others that i'm missing could do it.

russel westbrook and tim hardaway penetrate when they want to. no one is stopping them, not magic, not deron williams not anybody.

it is not coinicidence that since 1980, there has been exactly 2 nba champions that had "penetrating" pgs, and magic is excluded from this, because that is who i'm defending here.

tony parker and isiah thomas. that's it. they are only guys. the only other guy to come close to sniffing a ring was john stockton, and we all know why he didn't win.

and it isn't a coincidence that the pg games of these three pg's was far more sophisticated and nuanced than most other pg's whose teams failed to reach these heights, but i won't get into that.

the point is that so what if magic can't stay in front of deron williams. he couldn't stay in front of isiah thomas either, but it didn't stop his team from winning.

derek fisher allowed guys to go by him like he was getting bonuses for doing it, yet it didn't stop the lakers from winning.

stopping pg penetration is a relatively insignificant aspect of effective team defense and would not be a factor in assessing whether 2012 team usa would have a chance against the dream team.
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by five4suited
jordan and pippen could guard any two of those 3 (I'd put pippen on kd, just like he guarded magic in the finals). and I think you're forgetting durant weighs 2 bills.

so there wouldn't be any matchup problems for the '12 team on the defensive end?
Durant's weight just makes it easier for him to rise and eyeball Pippen/Jordan/whoever tries to stop his 7' 5" wingspan J.
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 01:57 AM
Magic's a much easier half-court guard for Pippen than KD would be.
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 01:57 AM
stopping pg penetration wasn't a factor in team USA's losses from 2002-2006 (and almost in 2008) - pg's from both sides were going to get in the lane regardless.

it was other factors, like offensive efficiency (not pounding the ball too much and getting everyone involved), effective defensive rotations, and doing little "smart" things (like remembering to bump the cutter, block out - not just crash the glass, all players including the pg setting screens and not just standing, cutting to the RIGHT spots, and other "smart" things).
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07-13-2012 , 01:59 AM
not really. shane battier basically locked durant up anytime it counted. it was embarassing and excrutiating (i was cheering for okc) to watch.

and magic would post up and penetrate by durant. durant would just try to penetrate when he isn't shooting the long ball.
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07-13-2012 , 02:03 AM
lol @ anytime it counted and ur ******o sample size for making that determination

how about

57-104 for the series. .63 TS on 29 USG in the playoffs.


I'd put LBJ on Magic. Magic might as well fade into the background.

Let Durant guard Bird/Mullins/whoever is the lesser wing.
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07-13-2012 , 02:07 AM
my point is that pg penetration is a very overrated, and relatively insignificant aspect of effective team defense, and there is a ton of empirical evidence that proves this.

unless they are being guarded by a determined mj, lebron or scottie, deron williams and tim hardaway penetrate when they please.

just like rwb did to chalmers in the Finals. magic would do at least as well as chalmers did, while punishing him on the other end lebron-style.
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07-13-2012 , 02:09 AM
Lets rank the WIM of each side

also O/U 6mins before Barkley elbowed somebody in the game?
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07-13-2012 , 02:11 AM
Carmelo and Malone cancel each other out.
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 02:15 AM
first possession obviously. david robinson probably wins the tip, since he jumps higher and is longer than chandler, but barkley would elbow on just about every possession no matter which side of the floor he's on.
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07-13-2012 , 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
Carmelo and Malone cancel each other out.
and i got banned for "trolling".
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07-13-2012 , 02:18 AM
pg play is really only a factor when one team severely overmatches the other, where the inferior team's pg can get rattled by the pressure and give up the ball or be unable to initiate the offense repeatedly. mostly in high school and some college and international games really.
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07-13-2012 , 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnh83
also I feel Magic gets overlooked, his numbers in 1991 are just as good as they always were. Yes he then contracted teh AIDS, but he was far from washed up in 1992
Exactly. He was one year removed from finishing 2nd in MVP voting to prime MJ (after winning the previous two seasons) while leading the Lakers to the Finals. Prime MJ couldn't handle him in the Finals. Magic killed him in the post and they had to switch Pippen onto him full time. Magic averaged 22-8-13 in the playoffs that year. One year away from the game (while still being in excellent shape) would not diminish Magic all that much. He was only 32. It isn't like he was 35 and several years removed from MVP level play. Had he played in 1992-93 he most certainly would have been in the top 5 in MVP voting yet again.

The 2012 team would have a serious match up problem with Magic because he would destroy any of the PGs they would put on him in the post. He'd also destroy Kobe and Wade in the post as well, IMO.

As for Magic and Stockton on D, I think they are both being sold really short by many. Magic was a very smart defender. He'd force them all to prove they can hit jumpers. Stockton was also far from a slouch defensively.
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07-13-2012 , 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trainwreckog
my point is that pg penetration is a very overrated, and relatively insignificant aspect of effective team defense, and there is a ton of empirical evidence that proves this.

unless they are being guarded by a determined mj, lebron or scottie, deron williams and tim hardaway penetrate when they please.

just like rwb did to chalmers in the Finals. magic would do at least as well as chalmers did, while punishing him on the other end lebron-style.
O no, are you saying Magic is a better defender than Chalmers? Is this real life?

Why would '12 not switch assignments if Magic tried to post him up? Run a 2-3 or a 1-3-1 or whatevs if it becomes an issue. Aren't you the one saying PG mismatches don't mean much b/c of team D?
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07-13-2012 , 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
O no, are you saying Magic is a better defender than Chalmers? Is this real life?

Why would '12 not switch assignments if Magic tried to post him up? Run a 2-3 or a 1-3-1 or whatevs if it becomes an issue. Aren't you the one saying PG mismatches don't mean much b/c of team D?
Penetrating PGs. If Magic is abusing everyone in the post everything he was talking about doesn't apply. Even prime MJ in the Finals had his hands full with Magic just a year prior to the Olympics.

The crop of PGs on the 2012 squad would have no chance against Magic in the post. If they switch one of them onto MJ or Pippen, well good luck with that as well. Jordan would destroy any of them in the post, and Pippen also had a very advanced post game to go along with his phenomenal passing and instincts and his great length.
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 02:33 AM
... Until you play Lebron at PG
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 02:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trainwreckog
and i got banned for "trolling".
Their WIM you dunce.

Look at the post immediately preceding mine.
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
... Until you play Lebron at PG
And then what would the match ups be?
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 02:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
O no, are you saying Magic is a better defender than Chalmers? Is this real life?

Why would '12 not switch assignments if Magic tried to post him up? Run a 2-3 or a 1-3-1 or whatevs if it becomes an issue. Aren't you the one saying PG mismatches don't mean much b/c of team D?
how much worse can a guy play rwb if he lets him go off for 45 in a Finals game and average 27, 6, and 7 for the series?

rondo torched chalmers the previous series as well.

magic couldn't do worse. that's my point. and then magic would do whoever was guarding him lebron style on the other end (and when i say lebron-style, i'm saying that tongue in cheek - since magic was the originator of dominance as a point forward from the post). and therefore, that's the difference - what magic does on the other end, since rwb/paul are getting in the lane on whoever.
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07-13-2012 , 02:52 AM
magic was runner up for mvp in 1991.

he was just barely past his uber prime, when his athleticism is actually pretty underrated by everyone.

people act like chris paul and russell westbrook don't get beat off the dribble. those guys aren't keeping anyone in front of them. especially with all the pick and roll action, which actually makes the argument of keeping someone in front of you even more obsolete.
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote
07-13-2012 , 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trainwreckog
how much worse can a guy play rwb if he lets him go off for 45 in a Finals game and average 27, 6, and 7 for the series?

rondo torched chalmers the previous series as well.

magic couldn't do worse. that's my point. and then magic would do whoever was guarding him lebron style on the other end (and when i say lebron-style, i'm saying that tongue in cheek - since magic was the originator of dominance as a point forward from the post). and therefore, that's the difference - what magic does on the other end, since rwb/paul are getting in the lane on whoever.
Well I think the game-plan was to let Rondo shoot at will.

You're arguing out of both sides of your mouth b/c you allude to team D and it being a team game on one end when it comes to penetration and then continuously refer to individual match ups on the other side as if they can't be countered also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgerIrish
Why would '12 not switch assignments if Magic tried to post him up? Run a 2-3 or a 1-3-1 or whatevs if it becomes an issue
1992 USA Dream Team vs. 2012 USA Men's Bball Team Quote

      
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