I know there are a lot of PokerTracker users on this forum. I'm hoping this thread will spark a lot of discussion.

As most PokerTracker users are aware, PokerTracker is an extremely powerful, relatively easy to use piece of software. However, it is a bit dated and there are parts of it that are problematic. This is not something that is unknown to the PokerTracker team.

You might be wondering why I, the developer of PokerAce Hud, am posting this? Well, a long time in the making, the PokerTracker team and myself have decided to join forces to develop the next generation of PokerTracker. Our combined experience and expertise will be utilized to create something more powerful, easier to use, and easier on the eyes than the current offerings of PokerTracker.

The reason of this thread is not to generate hype for a non-existent product. It is to find out what you, the PokerTracker users, want to see in the next generation. What do you like about PokerTracker? What do you hate? What would you like to see changed? Both the PokerTracker team and myself have always valued and appreciated our users. We try to go above and beyond what is expected in regards to service and support. We hope to continue that by giving you the PokerTracker you want to see.

A lot of you have been wanting this for a long time. Now it's your chance to give your input. Help us continue to make PokerTracker the best solution for today and tomorrow.

Questions? Comments? Criticism? We'd like to hear it all and all input is appreciated.

Note: I will not be spreading this post among other forums. If you know of a community that would appreciate being able to voice their opinions, by all means, link them to this thread. I would like to keep all discussion here though.

its slow and needs to be multi threaded, thats the big two problems

Check out these threads for ideas:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=1&fpart=1
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0&fpart=1

Competition (or even the suggestion of such) breeds progress it would seem

I would suggest PokerTracker work to drop all support for Access databases and therefore focus on improving the speed of DB functions using PGSQL... if nothing else, the RVG Holdem Manager thread suggests very fast performance is possible using PSQL, and I'm 90% certain the fact that PT's SQL routines are derived from / rooted in MS Access is a killer in the performance area.

Obviously 3bet / 4bet stats etc are desired, but this is under discussion (maybe even implementation now) already I know.

Focus more on NL aspects in general would be well advised, NL seems to have become massively more popular since PT started.

A fully documented database schema would (for me anyhow) be fantastic, it is a huge waste of time trying to figure out what a certain column means / how values are encoded.

Ideally, the database (game_players table mainly I suppose) would be re-structured (or maybe an additional table linked to it) so that the entire process of a hand could be reconstructed (therefore queried) after the fact, without the HH file. maybe that is not very clear... a new table (or modification of existing table) so that one could find e.g. "all hands where I was check-minraised on the turn" for example...


Disclaimer: I think PT has been of extraordinary value, I am a happy customer, and would def buy again. I will be purchasing RVG's new SW without doubt. I would love to see both HM and PT in serious competition with each other, such leads to faster development and increased functionality for us, the end users


dave.

Yes, it will be written in a faster programming language and will definitely be multithreaded. Speed will not be an issue anymore.

Discussion of this collaboration began many many months ago.


Database speed is a major focus and a very important part of the new software.


Yeah, these will definitely be available.


Yes, this is true. Better support for tournaments too.


Documentation and ease of use is something that is a huge focus in this project.


Yes, the plan is to have every action available via the database without having to parse the hand history.

Um.... your posting this because Hold Em Manager is coming out soon and will make PokerTracker and your product obsolete. Please don't post under the guise of wanting to satisfy your customers; it's a little late for that. This is actually meant for PT and not PAHUD since I have never had a problem with your software or customer service. It just sucks that your product will be attached to PT.

Can't really think of much else to add (speed is most important from my perspective), except as another poster mentioned some thought needs to go into new NL-specific stats.

Juk

Looks like us end-users are in for some long awaited improvements!

Juk

The timing of this post has a bit to do with the competition, that's true, but the collaboration and the design of the next generation has been in the works for much longer than HoldemManager has been known of.

There are problems with HoldemManager that I will not discuss, that lead not only myself, but other experienced developers to believe that it will not be "the next PokerTracker". PokerTracker is number one for a reason, and it has nothing to do with getting to the market first. There is well known competition, but yet PT continues to exist. Not only exist, but thrive.

To think that the PT developers have not strived to satisfy their customers is ridiculous. Ask just about anyone who has had a problem with PT and dealt with support. They will tell you how great PT support is. Support is so dedicated that they would sacrifice new shiny features that might attract new customers in order to help existing users with their problems.

Well a lot of people are using PT and PA now so i want to know what my stats are on other peoples databases too.
Lets say i have 1000 hands on someone, i like to see what my stats were on those 1000 specific hands, and there should be way to view them via a hud too.

FWIW, there has been "3/4 bet stats - what do you want to see added" threads on the PT forum for a long time now... I have no doubt PT + Josh have been working on a major upgrade for a good while... my comment was mainly in jest.

As I said before, I will certainly purchase HM - But there is no way I will stop using PT + PAHUD... as I'm sure anyone sensible will be doing, I will be running booth in tandem for the foreseeable future.


dave.

What I'd most like to have is PT, PTO, and PTS integrated somehow. I like to play HORSE and it's annoying to have to open up all three programs to import hands and see my results.

This is great news, I would hate to have to buy another product from competitors if a better one came out, simply because the support from PAH and PT is first class. As far as PT only doing PostgresSQL - my computer loads up Postgres fine, totally functional and on restart it can't find the DB, I have had several attempts with PT support and they couldn't work it out - if Postgres is the way to go(and I think it is), then clearly they need to know more about Postgres. It doesn't overly bother me and I have no issue with PT support that they could not remedy this, just saying if it is going to become the standard it has to be understood better. My main concern with PT is buddylisting, poker is getting tougher so that is the future to me- far more sorting features are needed and a simple way to then export the list to programme's like Spade Eye. But really detailed, basically the ability to sort buddies with EVERY statistic you have on them. "All in" hand analysis would also be nice, filtered along the lines of "shoved", "called a shove" etc.- considering this is where you get the most money in, it is a part of your game you should be able to analyze well.

Good luck with the new application, I look forward to the competition. Please keep comments like this to a minimum and I'll do the same!

I do have a lot of respect for the work that you and Pat have done. On the other hand I have 16 years experience as a developer/architect including the last 12 as Senior Architect for the company I cofounded that now has a market cap of $60 million so I know a thing or two about building software

thanks,

rvg

Edit: I won't post any more in your thread by the way and I really do respect the work you guys have done.

The challenge has been made and the game it ON!

And the winner will be......all poker players! (At least the good ones who like to study their game.)

I hope there are no losers. PT & PAHUD are fantastic second generation products. The third generation can only be better.

Everyone involved has my utmost respect and I wish all of you well.

------------Meow

Dazarth thank you for the post on the other 2 beta's that are out there or will be out in the next 2 weeks (HoldemManager). As others have stated in this thread competition is what makes a better product in the end. Only time will tell which one/ones are used in the end. I look forward to responses from userse here in the futre as this product is being built for the users not to replace PT but to be able to satisfy what users want to see in this day and age.

www.poker-bud.com

As RVG has said and I will say the same I will no longer post in your thread.

This is ridiculous. The information is all out there. It's not so much about hearing what people want but anticipating the market and using your own brain to figure out innovative features. You're not writing an operating system - it's just a poker tracking application.

I find this very hard to believe.

Having used the product, I can assure you that there are no "problems with HoldemManager". Regardless, it's pretty rude to make comments like this about a competitor's product.

There are three problems I can see with Holdem Manager:

- You need to install postgreSQL
- You need to install .NET
- It's a single developer, which is absolutely insane if you're going to support a tracker, a HUD, all sites, AND add new features.

The first is a necessity for any serious database product (perhaps MySQL is a viable alternative). The second enables productive programming not possible in unmanaged C++, and .NET is installed with Vista anyway, so it will be widely available in future years.
The third is a terrible business decision but something that I assume will be fixed going forward.

I was not doubting your skills as a developer or a designer. These aren't technical issues I was referring to. I have no desire to bash you or your product. It looks very well put together. I was simply responding to the idea that your software will make PokerTracker and PokerAce Hud "obsolete". I do not believe that is the case.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Part of the reason PokerAce Hud became so popular was due to fulfilling user requests. I want input from those people actually using PokerTracker. I want to know what they would like to see changed and what they would like to see stay the same.

As I mentioned earlier, I was not referring to technical issues. I will not discuss the issues I see. I made my comment based on personal experience and in response to a very negative post. I did not mean to make it sound like the software was defective.

Just to clarify, when I said to check out the threads above, I did not mean steal features from those two programs. Rather, both threads are full of feature suggestions from other posters which I think all of the PT/HM/PB developers could learn from and see the desires of their customer base.

W00t this is great news! I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

Here's what I would like to see:

- Dev toolkit - I'd love to be able to create my own stats from my pokertracker DB (using SQL / whatever) and display those in my HUD. A lot of us PokerTracker nuts know enough about databases and programming to be able to do these. I'll even be willing to pay extra for the ability to modify / add things to my PokerTracker / HUD

- Preflop rangefinder
I'd REALLY love to see which hands my opponent has previously limped / called / opened / 3bet from his current position on the table.

E.g. in a ring game, every time after a hand finished the HUD should know that the the player in the SB is now the BTN and then it should retrieve all the known starting hands for that player in that position and show how he played them. Maybe he opens with AJo for a pot-sized bet. Maybe he cold-calls with 66. Whatever. Those are the kinds of things that MANY players like to take notes on, but really it should be automated. With enough observed hands you'll be able to effectively narrow the range of your opponents and give you a massive advantage pre-flop.

- Stats that change depending on the street you're on. I.e. pre-flop you'll see all your pre-flop stats. On the flop you'll see your post-flop stats. I don't know how hard it would be to work out where in the hand you are (I guess it would depend on the site) since you currently get all input from the hand history written to disk after completion of the hand. But it would definitely be a nice thing to have.

I'm sure I'll think of moar stuff so I'll be posting here again!

make it possible to import many more hands at once instead of just the 30k -50k that's the limit now?

Oh and if could please use Sql Server 2005 Express - it's free, extremely powerful, fast and easy to work with.

Please everyone, let's not turn this thread into a pissing match between developers. Anyone who cares about these types of products will figure out on their own which product suits them best.

PokerAce, as to your question specifically. Speed is the obvious need but that's a given. The next issue that comes up frequently for me takes a little more explaining. Right now it's easy to find hands as long as we know what we're holding preflop (or if we know the hand number but that's almost never.) What I want to be able to do is filter out hands based on postflop action. For instance, if I want to see only the hands where the board was paired and I had a four flush on the turn I want to be able to do this.