Who would have thought that PT3 is such a mess.
I really don't know what to do buy now.

for anyone playing 50nl+ I think HEM is obv a good investment at this moment

How long will it take to "finish" PT3 in a way it's really complete? Just approximately.

Why?

It was supposed to be complete long ago. Apparently there is a new build coming out soon, but every version seems to take 1 step forward and 3 steps to the side.

I'd really like to know so I can actually give it a fair look over.

Hrmpf. This is exactly the answer I expected to get... Damn it. It's a shame.

I have been biting my lip, trying not to comment in this thread, but that just isn't in my nature.

My $0.02:

This is NOT PokerTracker3, IMO. PokerTracker2 was developed and built by PTPat. PT3 was developed and built by the PAHUD guys. It seems to me they spent so much time trying to learn how to build a HH DB Tracker, that they completely missed out on nailing the HUD (their bread and butter).


[trolling]

Can we get a mod to re-title this thread to something more appropriate like:

'PokerAce Tracker v1.0 vs Hold'em Manager 1.0'



[/trolling]

what happened to PTPat?

Are you serious? PT Pat was not involved in PT3? I thought he was responsible for the DB tracker and the PA guys did the HUD?

Wow, this is really damn interesting! I bet not many people realized that.

I guess I'm not the only one who was waiting for pokertracker3 since, well, since, since... very long ago...

And now everybody is fu**ed up.
What a disaster.

I obv dont know the specifics, but I recall some post by PokerAce, where he stated that they had joined (which I interpreted as took control of) PokerTracker3. PA has stated previously that he and AP10 are the ones developing this and doing all the coding, and PTPat is providing PT2 support, IIRC.

My apologies if I misinterpreted any of that information, as that was discussed months ago in the PT3 thread, IIRC. I just dont think PT3 feels anything like the next version of PT2.

I agree that HM is better but just out of curiosity, what is your ongoing relationship with HM?

Fair question:

I am a previous vendor of his, I supplied some of my time and original graphics for monetary compensation. I made him some cards, and he paid me for my time. I also helped him to skin his replayer using my Tolmet mod, and I was paid for that. I often get pre-release, test builds (alpha-release if you will), and test and give my input, especially as it pertains to the replayer graphics.

I get NO current or future financial compensation for my support of his product. I dont receive any type of future compensation from HM for my previous work (i.e. a %). I was paid previously, and do not expect Roy to ever pay me another dime, unless I actually were to do more graphics work for him.

I truly love the product, and believe its currently better than PT3. I find it to be much more intuitive, and easy to filter for what I want to see. I did test PT3 some, after sessions. I would filter/sort my PT3 DB and do the same filter in HM, and compare the results. I never tested the PT3 HUD in actual play, only looked at it briefly while datamining FTP, after I heard the comparisons of the HUD to HMs HUD. I do plan on testing the PT3 trial some more as well, once they say they have improved the performance.

It is an incorrect answer however.

If you are using "commercial release" as the point in time for evaluation of features, Holdem Manager was supposed to be "complete" ~6 months ago - it certainly was not. There were many issues faciing HM then as there are facing PT3 now.

Now, Holdem Manager is in very good shape - but it has been "commercial release" for a while now, and it is certainly not "finished" yet. It seems clear Roy has many more ideas he wants to implement that we cannot even imagine yet.

The same applies to PT3 - except they are 6 months behind HM in the public eye. Give it some time.

Personally, I am not disappointed in the PT3 crew for releasing "too early" (well, I am a little bit) - but it is pretty much par for the course in this field, it seems. Very rarely is a software product released in a perfect working, feature complete state.

I am also confused by people regretting the purchase of either product. It is not like these are subscription services - you pay once and get updates for the lifetime. Unless the purchase price is of considerable utility bankroll-wise, what is the issue?

Anyhow - the important part of both these products is the database - it is what enables useful features to exist. Both HM and PT3 database formats crush PT2's schema - and that is all that matters, since it is very hard to fix once it is in widespread use (see why no 3bet stats ever added to PT2).

I have used both products and both are very intuitive to use (HM a little more) and both look good (PT3 somewhat better).

I bought HM cause A. its more stable *right now* and B. I think it has more new creative features (Player Analysis, Active Player Details Window) which have a large potential (e.g. some work needed to be more usable while multitabling).

I though PT3 planned for future DB changes but said they would be automatic? I can see the update taking a very long time but I have to think that both HM and PT3 will change the DB somewhat in the future.

The Player Analysis tab of the APDW will soon be available as a Pop-Up in the HUD, IIRC.

Correct, both on the planning for future possibilities, and on the likelihood it will take a monumental amount of time to process any non-trivial change. Basically they should both want to keep the option open, but never have to use it for more than adjustments rather than changes.

There is also the not insignificant issue of third party applications - which while very few at present, will unlikely be the case in the future - making large-scale database changes more undesirable as time passes.

Simply getting what you pay for. Obviously PT3 isn't close to HEM right now; we were led to believe it would soon thereafter commercial release (basically by June). Might or might not happen, but at this point it's not likely, and the more polished product gets a lot more support. I would've regretted buying PT3 too if I bought it blindly like I planned to last Friday; just the time value of money. Now it has a lot more to live up to to be > than HEM and make me buy it.

The problem is not "regretting a purchase", it's simply that there are many "projects" and no "product" at the moment to say it a little, well, pissed...

I think the issue for me and others is what's the best now. HEM currently is a very solid product. It might have had bugs when it was released, and I realize that PT3 will have bugs on release, but it isn't 6 months ago, it's today.

And today, HEM is a better product.

I dont know, I think it might be awesome, but its gonna be released for public testing tomorrow i believe, so try it out.

So HEM can't do customizable stats? Assuming PT3 can do what I want, that will be a big advantage for it. I'm still on PT2 and will probably wait till PT3 is ready for prime time to upgrade, but I'll keep an open mind.

HEM can do tons of custom stats, but they aren't working in the HUD yet. That's one of the next features to be rolled out.