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Old 04-28-2010, 09:18 AM   #1
ChamoneHuHu
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Build your own HUD

Hello,

I want to build my own HUD.
I was a software professional in the 90s so even though I'm clearly out of date I feel I got the skills to make a good stab at it and get something better for my personal use than what's out there.

Where do I start? Do the different poker rooms offer APIs for the construction of HUDs or do HUDs latch on in some other way?

Would love to hear from anyone with experience of doing this.

Thanks so much,

ChamoneHuHu
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:05 AM   #2
jukofyork
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Re: Build your own HUD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChamoneHuHu View Post
Where do I start? Do the different poker rooms offer APIs for the construction of HUDs or do HUDs latch on in some other way?
The poker rooms don't have any API for making HUDs - you have to do it all yourself.

If you are not already familiar with it, then the best place to start would be to read up on the Windows API (concentrating on the GDI API and layered windows):

http://www.toymaker.info/Games/html/gdi.html
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms997507.aspx

You can find all the Windows reference material you'll need on MSDN:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...03(VS.85).aspx

You'll also need to work out how to get a list of seated players to know who's stats to display - this can be done in a number of ways, ranging from reading the site's own hand history files to scanning the poker client's memory for the info.

If you are hoping to make your HUD work from HEM or PT3 then you'll also need to read up on how to interface with their DBs and execute the queries you need (some HUDs like the now defunct "realtime HUD" and NotesNL just work from the hand history files themselves and create their own proprietary DBs).

Juk
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:56 AM   #3
ChamoneHuHu
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Re: Build your own HUD

Great thanks that points me in the right direction. Much appreciated.

Just thought of something else.
Once I have my own HUD how will poker rooms try to detect if what I am doing is within the rules?

ie. what I am really asking is how can poker rooms and rule abiding players protect themselves from people developing their own HUDs in breach of the rules, when the very existance of these HUDs is kept secret?
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:13 PM   #4
jukofyork
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Re: Build your own HUD

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Originally Posted by ChamoneHuHu View Post
Just thought of something else.
Once I have my own HUD how will poker rooms try to detect if what I am doing is within the rules?

ie. what I am really asking is how can poker rooms and rule abiding players protect themselves from people developing their own HUDs in breach of the rules, when the very existance of these HUDs is kept secret?
So long as your HUD just displays stats then it should be fine as it's not doing anything different to the existing HUDs. If on the other hand it's some kind of "odds calculator" then it will prolly be not allowed for similar reasons.

As far as detecting custom odd calculators, then I guess they would detect them in a similar way as they do bots - although unless they are perceived as a significant threat, not much will be done against them (ie: PokerStars allowed realtime ICM calculators for a year or so before banning them).

Juk
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:11 PM   #5
ChamoneHuHu
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Re: Build your own HUD

Interesting, thanks for sending me those links. Had a brief look at them and I'm still somewhat puzzled as to how to get the information out of the poker room and into my HUD. ie as you say, who the players are, but also what cards have been dealt to me and the board and what the betting and folding pattern has been for the hand and previous hands etc...

From your post you suggest that this can be done by scanning the poker room's process memory. That's gotta be pretty tricky and a maintenance nightmare. Did I understand you correctly?

Additionally I was intending to calculate odds and a bunch of stuff in real time but if I understand you post correctly you say this is against the rules? Isn't that what a a large portion of authorised HUDs out there already do?
When I spoke of rule breaches I had in mind BOTS and the use of data mined hands you've never played.

How can the poker room protect its patrons from home grown HUDs that cheat in this way? The more I think about it the more I come to the worrisome conclusion that it cant.

Any thoughts anyone?
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:08 PM   #6
mikechops
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Re: Build your own HUD

No money in HUD development. Everyone's solid.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:51 PM   #7
ChamoneHuHu
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Re: Build your own HUD

Interesting, I'm not trying to sell this, it's just for my own use.
Having looked at the HUDs out there they haven't satisfied me as far as their odds calculators go. I got my own calculator which calculates the things I want to see in the way I want to calculate them.

Basically I just need to have a way to automatically read all hand details and profiling in real time so I no longer have to manually input stuff. That way I'll be able to increase my multi-table count. It would also be nice to display the results in a HUD on each table
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:59 PM   #8
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Re: Build your own HUD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChamoneHuHu View Post
Interesting, thanks for sending me those links. Had a brief look at them and I'm still somewhat puzzled as to how to get the information out of the poker room and into my HUD. ie as you say, who the players are, but also what cards have been dealt to me and the board and what the betting and folding pattern has been for the hand and previous hands etc...
None of this info is needed if you are just makign a HUD.

Quote:
From your post you suggest that this can be done by scanning the poker room's process memory. That's gotta be pretty tricky and a maintenance nightmare. Did I understand you correctly?
Yes and that's why HUDs often break and need to be fixed after a cleint update.

One easy way round this is to just use the hand history output from the previous hand... Some of the old HUDs used to do this and they printed the name of each player on the HUD so you could detect if the wrong stats were displayed in a cash game.

Quote:
Additionally I was intending to calculate odds and a bunch of stuff in real time but if I understand you post correctly you say this is against the rules?
Yes, on most sites it is now against the rules.

Quote:
Isn't that what a a large portion of authorised HUDs out there already do?
Displaying stats you've compiled from previous hands is fine on most sites (there are exceptions such as Cake poker). Using the state of the current game to offer realtime EV/odds is against the rules on most sites now.

Quote:
How can the poker room protect its patrons from home grown HUDs that cheat in this way? The more I think about it the more I come to the worrisome conclusion that it cant.
As I said above, they can use similar methods to what they use to catch bots, but in reality unless the site perceives it to be a serious thread to their bottom line, they are prolly not going to bother too much... The reason they go after bots (and recently data-mining) isn't because they want to create "holier than thou" games where poker is played "the way it should be" and all that. No, it's quite simply because it scares off the recreational players which are the lifeblood of their sites (if it didn't then they would love to have rake-paying bots and datamining rakeback pros on their site...).

Juk
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:10 PM   #9
jukofyork
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Re: Build your own HUD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChamoneHuHu View Post
Having looked at the HUDs out there they haven't satisfied me as far as their odds calculators go. I got my own calculator which calculates the things I want to see in the way I want to calculate them.
The thing you have to realize about "odds calculators" is that they basically suck and are no real help to anybody but a total newcomer (they even sucked 5+ years ago when the games were really soft/passive and these things had some chance of helping you... Stuff like "Calculatem Pro" only had the slightest chance of helping you win/breakeven if there were 80%+ passive morons in your games).

Your best bet it to just play lots of poker and then you'll find that the required odds calculations will become remarkably easy to do in your head (via simple approximations and rote learning). As far as your journey as a poker player goes this is probably one of the easiest parts there is.

Juk
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:50 PM   #10
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Re: Build your own HUD

I made an extensive (at the time) HUD a couple of years ago, it worked from the hand history files (for player names/seating), and accessed PT3's postgres database via SQL (to compile stats).

source codes are still here: http://www.overcards.com/wiki/moin.cgi/AHK-HUD

I loved it

It needs fixing before it will work again - as mentioned above, poker client updates break things every now and again even if you're doing minimal interactions. I wasn't doing any process scanning or such fancy tricks. AHK-HUD is likely broken in multiple places for all clients by now, it's been a while

Easiest way to determine game state is to OCR/image-process various sections of the table. CPU intensive to do this however, and of little value when all you are really allowed to do with the data is produce an "strength of my hand / how many outs do I have" type display.

I'd still like to have an OSD of the betting actions of the hand in-progress, don't think anyone's done that in an amazingly useful fashion so far. not that I can think of a decent method either, mind you
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:58 PM   #11
ChamoneHuHu
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Re: Build your own HUD

So the code you pointed me to actually OCRs the poker rooms?

How come you don't use it any more?

Even though my manual input software is clumsy I still find it invaluable.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:10 PM   #12
ChamoneHuHu
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Re: Build your own HUD

Quote:
Originally Posted by jukofyork View Post
Displaying stats you've compiled from previous hands is fine on most sites (there are exceptions such as Cake poker). Using the state of the current game to offer realtime EV/odds is against the rules on most sites now.
wow a lot of these tools's marketing pages would have you believe otherwise. Poker Edge says it is compatible with PokerStars while clearly PokerStars website has it listed in the prohibited list

Some even flagrantly encourage cheating! Poker Crusher states on its website that in the "In the rare case that a poker room should object to its players using Poker Crusher™ there is still no need to worry. Poker Crusher™ has proprietary security technology in place such that the poker room has no way of knowing if you are using Poker Crusher™"

What do people here have to say to that?
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:01 PM   #13
mikechops
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Re: Build your own HUD

If you are looking to track the current hand, the easiest site to do it on is Party. Juk's far too modest to mention it but he wrote FreePHG (party hand grabber). It outputs the live hand as a text file. The HEM HUD reads the files to display the current hand history and dim stats for player that folded.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:58 AM   #14
dad604
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Re: Build your own HUD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChamoneHuHu View Post
wow a lot of these tools's marketing pages would have you believe otherwise. Poker Edge says it is compatible with PokerStars while clearly PokerStars website has it listed in the prohibited list

Some even flagrantly encourage cheating! Poker Crusher states on its website that in the "In the rare case that a poker room should object to its players using Poker Crusher™ there is still no need to worry. Poker Crusher™ has proprietary security technology in place such that the poker room has no way of knowing if you are using Poker Crusher™"

What do people here have to say to that?
PE and PC is the same, PC is just a skin of PE. There are a bunch of programs I do not like because they use you as the customer to do the datamining for them, including PE and PC. As you play you send the HH back to them. You can opt out from your own HH showing but as soon as you stop paying them, then boom, your Hh is available to their other paying customer.

PE and PC are forbidden at Star, FT, Party, etc., the major sites. PE and PC said you can use them at the sites and the sites said you cannot, who do you believe???!!!!! I was just checking PE's site at the same time I was playing and message from poker site popup saying "stopping using .... or be ban"
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Old 04-29-2010, 02:29 AM   #15
Dies Irae
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Re: Build your own HUD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChamoneHuHu View Post
wow a lot of these tools's marketing pages would have you believe otherwise. Poker Edge says it is compatible with PokerStars while clearly PokerStars website has it listed in the prohibited list

Some even flagrantly encourage cheating! Poker Crusher states on its website that in the "In the rare case that a poker room should object to its players using Poker Crusher™ there is still no need to worry. Poker Crusher™ has proprietary security technology in place such that the poker room has no way of knowing if you are using Poker Crusher™"

What do people here have to say to that?
Two things:
1) I welcome people who are using PokerEdge/CalculateEm. Please, sit in my game. If you need these tools, you are NOT going to beat the regulars at my stakes (and they aren't that high, either).

2) PokerStars has the onus of fair gameplay. PokerEdge et al. have the onus of ensuring you get an edge. Therefore, they will both "go to war" with each other, but I -SINCERELY- doubt PokerStars' biggest fear is PokerEdge. More likely, they go after collusion & botting.
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