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Old 09-12-2017, 09:24 AM   #1
robert_utk
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UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Question:

When playing against small stakes opponents, who play wider and with less skill, should I open raise UTG the top 10 percent of hands, or the top five percent of hands?

6-handed fixed limit, I want to just open raise this position. I cant think of a hand strong enough to play UTG but open limp 6-handed.

All the top five percent hands have high hand potential, usually with flush possibilities.

So the weakness I want to exploit is the overcalling of my opponents. Not too much overfolding happens down here at small stakes.

This seems to be play tighter UTG and open raise. Even the A2x hands that call will be behind this range, but often catch enough of a flop to call me down.

The top 5 percent hands are strong enough to succeed against overcallers.

Am I leaving any money on the table by mucking the 5-10 percent range hands?
This also helps me since playing oop is not my strength.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:22 PM   #2
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

10 percent is too tight. 1 or more players will wake up with another 10% hand less than 33% of the time. I will dynamically adjust my range based on other players at the table but yeah

Against a weak table I would consider opening and or limping hands as bad as 234x, 245x ss where x is a dangler
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:12 PM   #3
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Overcalling happens on the flops like T54 where villain has 9TJQ or whatever and you have the hands that moni suggested. So I would limp more low hands like moni said - basically any 3 wheel cards outside the top 10%.
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:25 PM   #4
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

These 2WWx suited hands happen about 3 percent of the time, but strength-wise are way up into the top 25 percent hands. Are we adding these combos to make a non-linear UTG range or are we just open limping an extra 15 percent of hands?

Thanks for the help thus far.
I realize that some advice is more for higher stakes play. While I will probably stay tight and aggro when UTG against call-fishes, I definitely want to understand the game that you guys/gals play at high stakes.
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:11 PM   #5
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Lol at 5 or 10% being the only 2 options 6-handed. Cmon.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:10 AM   #6
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UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

I get 1 or 2 callers plus both blinds, and I'm only playing top 10 percent hands and always open raise UTG. It is funny I agree, but until my opponents go broke or start folding, idk how to exploit them better.

Last edited by robert_utk; 09-15-2017 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 09-16-2017, 01:32 PM   #7
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
10 percent is too tight. 1 or more players will wake up with another 10% hand less than 33% of the time. I will dynamically adjust my range based on other players at the table but yeah

Against a weak table I would consider opening and or limping hands as bad as 234x, 245x ss where x is a dangler
234x / 245x ss re pretty bad hands with poor high potential and meh low potential. Would rather have basically any non terrible hand with an ace, or WWds.
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:01 PM   #8
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

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Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
I get 1 or 2 callers plus both blinds, and I'm only playing top 10 percent hands and always open raise UTG. It is funny I agree, but until my opponents go broke or start folding, idk how to exploit them better.
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:51 PM   #9
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

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Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
I get 1 or 2 callers plus both blinds, and I'm only playing top 10 percent hands and always open raise UTG. It is funny I agree, but until my opponents go broke or start folding, idk how to exploit them better.
You still exploit your opponents by playing better hands than them. But "better hands" will be much wider than just the top 10%.

If you are getting 1 or 2 field callers plus the blinds, that would indicate your average opponent is playing over 50% of their hands, in which case a top 25% hand range will always be superior to the average hand they are playing. Why would you prefer to fold rather than play a hand with a range advantage over your opponents?
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:21 PM   #10
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

I'll just add that playing more hands will also teach you to play better postflop. If/as you move up, you won't be beating your opponents with simply hand selection.
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Old 09-27-2017, 09:34 AM   #11
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Thanks for your input everyone.

At the low stakes I will remain tighter than all of you recommend. I open raise top 10 percent hands UTG 6-handed fixed limit. I play wider in the other seats.

1. The rake is the killer at low stakes, ~5BB/100

2. The players are different at these stakes, they draw to 5th nuts. I need hands that make 2nd nuts at least.

3. I need to improve my play obviously, but I will add more speculative hands like 245k later (but not UTG).
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Old 09-27-2017, 12:11 PM   #12
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

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Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
Thanks for your input everyone.

At the low stakes I will remain tighter than all of you recommend. I open raise top 10 percent hands UTG 6-handed fixed limit. I play wider in the other seats.

1. The rake is the killer at low stakes, ~5BB/100

2. The players are different at these stakes, they draw to 5th nuts. I need hands that make 2nd nuts at least.

3. I need to improve my play obviously, but I will add more speculative hands like 245k later (but not UTG).
Your description of the game seems very inconsistent. You are only playing 10% of hands UTG 6-handed, and say this is a wider range than the other players.

Yet you also claim that you get 1-2 field callers plus the blinds when you open UTG. Are you seriously claiming players play less than 10% of hands UTG, but at least 50% of hands from every other position when facing an UTG raise?
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Old 09-27-2017, 12:16 PM   #13
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

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Your description of the game seems very inconsistent. You are only playing 10% of hands UTG 6-handed, and say this is a wider range than the other players.



Yet you also claim that you get 1-2 field callers plus the blinds when you open UTG. Are you seriously claiming players play less than 10% of hands UTG, but at least 50% of hands from every other position when facing an UTG raise?


When did I say 10 percent was wider than anyone? I am the tight ass UTG.
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Old 09-27-2017, 12:28 PM   #14
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

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Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
When did I say 10 percent was wider than anyone? I am the tight ass UTG.
Sorry, I misread...I thought your previous post said "I play wider THAN the other seats" (i.e. players).
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:36 PM   #15
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
Thanks for your input everyone.

At the low stakes I will remain tighter than all of you recommend. I open raise top 10 percent hands UTG 6-handed fixed limit. I play wider in the other seats.

1. The rake is the killer at low stakes, ~5BB/100

2. The players are different at these stakes, they draw to 5th nuts. I need hands that make 2nd nuts at least.

3. I need to improve my play obviously, but I will add more speculative hands like 245k later (but not UTG).
You ask for help, every post in this thread says you play too tight, then you say "thank you but ill keep doing what im doing"

Next time don't waste everyone's time asking for help if you're gonna ignore us.
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Old 09-27-2017, 05:59 PM   #16
NickMPK
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
Thanks for your input everyone.

At the low stakes I will remain tighter than all of you recommend. I open raise top 10 percent hands UTG 6-handed fixed limit. I play wider in the other seats.

1. The rake is the killer at low stakes, ~5BB/100

2. The players are different at these stakes, they draw to 5th nuts. I need hands that make 2nd nuts at least.

3. I need to improve my play obviously, but I will add more speculative hands like 245k later (but not UTG).
You don't need to be playing 245K to be expanding beyond 10%. A lot of A3 hands are not even in the top 10%, and neither are most premium high hands.
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:11 PM   #17
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

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Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
You ask for help, every post in this thread says you play too tight, then you say "thank you but ill keep doing what im doing"



Next time don't waste everyone's time asking for help if you're gonna ignore us.


I always want to hear the other side of things, from better players that play higher stakes. Its a forum, and free.
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:12 PM   #18
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

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Originally Posted by NickMPK View Post
You don't need to be playing 245K to be expanding beyond 10%. A lot of A3 hands are not even in the top 10%, and neither are most premium high hands.


Thanks Nick, I use propokertools to study raw hand equity. The 245k was just an example from earlier itt.
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:03 PM   #19
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
I always want to hear the other side of things, from better players that play higher stakes. Its a forum, and free.
People spend their time because they want to help. You asked for help, got a unanimous answer, and chose to ignore everyone. How is this fair to those who spent their time posting (as you said FOR FREE) to help?
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:27 PM   #20
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolldUpTrips View Post
People spend their time because they want to help. You asked for help, got a unanimous answer, and chose to ignore everyone. How is this fair to those who spent their time posting (as you said FOR FREE) to help?
i'm not criticizing your opinion Rolld, nor answering your question in Robert's place, but in Robert's favor he has said "thanks" and "thanks for the input" which is a lot more than many posters do.

it is curious thread.

i've wondered if he is folding
**no parenthesis indicate 4 suits, parenthesis group cards of the same suit**
-A234,A235,A236,A237,A238 ?
-A(236),A(237),A(238) ?
-(A25)6,(A25)7,(A25)8 ?
-AK(J4),AK(T4),AK(93),AQ(J4) ?
-A(Q3)6,A(Q3)7,A(J3)8,A(Q3)6,A(Q3)7,A(Q3)8 ?
-Q(Q2)4,(2J)(J4)?
quickly off the top of my head

and with multiple callers why he prefers hands like AA68,AA6T etc.

but then maybe we have a different list of the top 10% hands
(ok i don't actually have a list, but i'm familair with some lists)
which would be useful to the discussion

Last edited by ngFTW; 09-27-2017 at 08:34 PM. Reason: i edited the post
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:29 AM   #21
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

This is my point:
If a unanimous verdict as to the main question he asked was not enough to sway his opinion, then the question itself is a waste of time. Asking waste-of-time questions is disrespectful to the people here who give free advice.
There is a spectrum of people who post on 2p2 ranging from people who only ask questions to people who only answer. This is good and healthy. If people ask questions that aren't genuine, some people will stop answering. Note that the people on the right side of the spectrum are going to be much stronger players than those on the left (in aggregate), so it's certainly, if nothing else, in the best interests of those on the left to ask real questions. This one was a waste-of-time question masquerading as a real question.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:07 PM   #22
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UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Well I almost did not give my "thanks but..." reply for the exact reason that RolldUpTrips got PO'd, because it can be interpreted as an insult to the responses given to my thread. I erred on the side of gratitude, and politeness when I should remember the forum is more about knowledge and information rather than a social interaction. In the future I will just ask a question and take any responses and leave it at that.

Last edited by robert_utk; 09-28-2017 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:07 PM   #23
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
Well I almost did not give my "thanks but..." reply for the exact reason that RolldUpTrips got PO'd, because it can be interpreted as an insult to the responses given to my thread. I erred on the side of gratitude, and politeness when I should remember the forum is more about knowledge and information rather than a social interaction. In the future I will just ask a question and take any responses and leave it at that.
No. In the future, ask questions that might be genuinely helpful. If a unanimous response won't inform your decision than that question has no chance to be helpful.
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:20 PM   #24
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

To be fair, his question was whether he should play -tighter- than 10%. To which presumably everyone has convinced him the answer is no.
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:24 PM   #25
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Re: UTG open range 6-handed Fixed Limit

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Originally Posted by robert_utk View Post
Well I almost did not give my "thanks but..." reply for the exact reason that RolldUpTrips got PO'd, because it can be interpreted as an insult to the responses given to my thread. I erred on the side of gratitude, and politeness when I should remember the forum is more about knowledge and information rather than a social interaction. In the future I will just ask a question and take any responses and leave it at that.
No, you shouldn't. This is almost worse.
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